WarpDoctor - General Meeting for 2004-04-25
12:00:39 <Doug> This meeting of Warpdoctor is now in session.
[Previously: "Well guys - Walter has asked me to host today's meeting..." ]
<Doug> I see that Bill is getting the log. Thanks Bill.
<wdl> De nada...
<Doug> I don't know how to put the agenda URL in the title bar - anyone else know how to do that?
<KenKrchnr> Can't without +op access
<Doug> The agenda is at: http://www.warpdoctor.org/Agendas/warpdoc_2004-04-25.html
<Doug> Oh well - I guess we will live.
<Doug> First item - Old Business A. 1 - Status on the plug-in
<Doug> I have been working last week on the URL/File screen - it is coming along well.
<Doug> Other than that we are about in the same spot as last week.
<Doug> Hello Walter.
<WalterOS2> Hi Doug
<WalterOS2> Hi everyone else, too.
<WalterOS2> same spot?
<Doug> Item 2 A.2 - Where are we on Phase 1.
<Doug> Status is just about the same as last week also.
<Doug> i.e. grinding along.
<Doug> item A.3 What to do with VOICE1
<Doug> Apparently Mensys as agreed to host VOICE1 with a limit of 2 GB of disk space
<Doug> Does anyone know about this wants to report?
<KenKrchnr> That won't be a true mirror.
<KenKrchnr> It will be more of a backup of files and some web access.
<Doug> What are we talking about - a mirror of the current newsletter?
<WalterOS2> Ken: How much better will a true mirror be? (Or is that a dumb question? <g>)
<KenKrchnr> Newsletter yes, search functions, new news and such won't work.
<Rat-Salad> hello
<Doug> Hi Jeremy
<WalterOS2> Hi Jeremy
<Rat-Salad> I may have no idea what is going on... but I believe I am able to start attending meetings again
<WalterOS2> 'Cause I can still host the machine here--especially if we can activate WOL.
<Doug> That's great!
<KenKrchnr> A mirror won't really be much different. There's really not enough load for a mirror to make a big diffrence.
<WalterOS2> Thing is: I don't think 2 GB is enough to back up everything if we lose the data on VOICE2.
<KenKrchnr> The recent changes to the voice site need some cgi and access to the email system.
<Doug> I assume that Mensys is giving us space on one of their existing machines, rather that hosting our machine at their site?
<Doug> rather than.
<KenKrchnr> 2 GB will be sufficient to backup the primary sites. The only thing we'd not be outting on there would be stuff like the warpstock videos. Those are backed up to 2 machines and a couple of dvd's already.
<wdl> Ken: "outting"?? Only in San Francisco... :0
<wdl> ":0" = ;)
<KenKrchnr> Or "putting" even :-)
<Doug> West coast meaning from east coast language.
<KenKrchnr> BTW Bill, did you send me the log from last week? I don't seem to have received it.
<Doug> I fear that Warpdoctor is going to be a difficult system to mirror, if we ever choose to do so.
<WalterOS2> Hi jep
<KenKrchnr> Too late :-)
<KenKrchnr> WD will have even more problems for mirror than the other sites.
<wdl> Ken: UH-oh... <blush>. No. Sorry. Will do it with todays'.
<WalterOS2> Ken: If everything else were equal, would you prefer to have the backup/mirror here or at Mensys?
<KenKrchnr> Here being?
<WalterOS2> My place.
<WalterOS2> Hi again jep
<jep> Hi all!
<Doug> Well - lets expand the here to include there
<Doug> there being NJ
<KenKrchnr> It would be better to have our own machine. That way we can do more without running into security problems.
<KenKrchnr> I actually figured that if we do backup to Mensys, I'll probably put the old voice1 on my cable connection for off-site backup. It could be brought online if needed.
<WalterOS2> 'Cause if's fine by me to host the VOICE1 machine at my place.
<KenKrchnr> I know that you were thinking about the power usage, but that doesn't bother me here at home. I always have machines running anyway.
<wdl> Walter *wants* to do it; is anxious to, even.
<wdl> Ken *can* do it; if not exactly anxious.
<WalterOS2> Since the machine is used so infrequently, if you can turn on WOL, there wouldn't be a problem.
<wdl> Why don't we just thank Mensys. And accept *both* ken and Walter's offers???
<wdl> Get the loooong-standing issue off the table??
<WalterOS2> Worst case scenario: VOICE could make a small monthly contribution to our power bill. :-)
<KenKrchnr> When the machine shows up we'll check to see if we can do wol on voice1.
<WalterOS2> OK.
<Doug> Don't both walter's and ken's hosting depend on the same machine? - VOICE1
<WalterOS2> Bill: My main concern is the 2 GB limitation on disk space.
<wdl> Walter: If needed I'll donate a 17Gb HDD.
<WalterOS2> Doug: Depends which of Ken's hosting's you're talking about. :-)
<KenKrchnr> I'm not bothered by the 2GB, but for a mirror we'd need to access; DB2 if mirroring new WD, rexx, and cgi scripting for voice and warpstock stuff.
<wdl> Doug: Walter hosts; Ken backs-up...
<KenKrchnr> Those aren't going to be available on the Mensys line.
<wdl> Seems to me the Mensys offer isn't adequate. Period??
<WalterOS2> I'd prefer to have a true mirror on a machine under VOICE's control.
<wdl> Walter: YES.
<Doug> It sound like Mensys looks to be a european "portal" of the voice newsletter, and possibly some other current stuff.
<KenKrchnr> The Mensys offer is good for an offsite backup, and limited access for voice sites if needed in an emergency.
<WalterOS2> I've upgraded my ISP connection to 3 mbps upload / 640 kbps download, so if VOICE did have to use the machine at my place, the transfer rate, etc. wouldn't be too bad.
<WalterOS2> Not as good as Mensys, of course. <g>
<KenKrchnr> You mean 3m d/l, don't you? That's the same as I have at home.
<WalterOS2> Sorry, yes!
<WalterOS2> 3 mbps download / 640 kbps upload
<WalterOS2> How about a straw vote?
<Doug> But both Walter and Ken are talking about hosting VOICE1, correct?
<WalterOS2> I think so. Ken already hosts VOICE2.
<KenKrchnr> How 'bout we wait 'til voice1 shows up to see what the options really are?
<Doug> Walter at his house, and Ken at his house.
<wdl> I straw-vote "Yes".
<Doug> Maybe now would be a good time to move to the next item 0 since it discusses how VOICE1 is going to show up
<Doug> Item A . 3 2 Ed Scrutton has agreed to assist in moving physical VOICE1 server
<WalterOS2> I'm not sure this is the best way to do it, however.
<Doug> Walter - do you know anything about this?
<Doug> it?
<WalterOS2> On April 19, Ed sent me this email:
<WalterOS2> Walter: Coloron would have to pick the machine up in North Philadelphia very near the Franklin Mills Mall where my daughter lives. New Era MI is on the opposite side of MI just up from Grand Rapids. It will be a day-trip to pick it up.
<WalterOS2> EDGAR
<WalterOS2> While I appreciate Ed's offer to help, it might be better to use Ken's previous plan, and have it shipped direct.
<Doug> Is ed offering to get the machine and take it to his daughter's house?
<WalterOS2> Provided we can trust [..] TE to ship it.
<KenKrchnr> That's less than an hour from here.
<WalterOS2> Doug: I'm not sure, but it sounds like it.
<Doug> Doesn't Ed live close to you, Walter?
<WalterOS2> But, I'm easy. I'll do whatever the rest of you think best. :-)
<WalterOS2> Doug: Not that close: about 3 hours away one-way.
<Doug> So if we are going to have the machine shipped, we can ship it anywhere. If we have Ed pick it up, it is going to Ken's location (or an hour away from ken's location)
<WalterOS2> Plus it's another day from his place to TE.
<Doug> Is the machine worth shipping?
<KenKrchnr> My opinion would depend on the timing Ed is thinking of. I believe it is time to give TE an answer and get the machine removed soon.
<WalterOS2> Ken: I agree.
<KenKrchnr> Thew machine is worth shipping. Unless TE wants a $$00 "packing" charge :-)
<WalterOS2> I would be cheaper, I think, to keep as much shipping with the U.S. as possible.
<WalterOS2> Ken: Right now the machine may just be taking up space.
<Doug> I would think that the hard drives would have to be removed and put in their own box(es)
<Doug> and shipped separately from the case
<WalterOS2> If he does want $xxxx for packing, then I should ask Ed to pick it up.
<KenKrchnr> Nah, machines are shipped complete with HD's all the time.
<Doug> ok - I have never bought a complete machine that was shipped.
<WalterOS2> Whatever we do, I agree with Ken that we should get it shipped out of TE asap.
<Doug> So TE could just drag it down to mailboxes etc and have them ship it.
<WalterOS2> Right. I hope it's that easy. :-)
<WalterOS2> Ken, can you contact him and see what our options are?
<KenKrchnr> Yes, I'll do that this week.
<Doug> So the question is WHERE to ship VOICE1
<WalterOS2> If he's cooperative, we might as well ship it straight to Coloron.
<WalterOS2> Ken: Thanks. :-)
<Doug> Does that mean this is settled?
<KenKrchnr> It means we have a plan.
<Doug> Good - I like plans
<WalterOS2> I think so, at least for now.
<WalterOS2> Ken and I can handle the minor stuff via email.
<Doug> Item A. 1. 4 - status of Voice web site changes
<Doug> Is this Ken?
<WalterOS2> Well, he is the Web admin. :-)
<KenKrchnr> What changes?
<WalterOS2> OK, next topic. VBG
<Doug> any changes.
<Doug> Boy that was quick.
<Doug> Ok - next topic is......
<Doug> 5. Access and test the new WD site
<KenKrchnr> We're waiting for some word on the eCS add stuff.
<Doug> eCS add stuff?
<KenKrchnr> Adding eCS to the web page in addition to OS/2 mentions.
<Doug> oh - that stuff
<Doug> How about New Business...
<WalterOS2> Ken: What do you mean "waiting for some word"?
<KenKrchnr> Last we left it, there was gonna be a poll of the members to see if it would be objectionable.
<WalterOS2> Ah right.
<KenKrchnr> Bill was going to start the poll, then we'd work on getting the word out to the members.
<WalterOS2> OK.
<KenKrchnr> But we were supposed to wait for a list of "Paid up" members.
<Doug> hello Mark
<WalterOS2> Hi Mark
<WalterOS2> Ken: I'll email Vaughn this week.
<MADodel> hello Doug, Walter
<KenKrchnr> Hi Mark
<Doug> Does Vaughn know who is a paid member and who isn't?
<KenKrchnr> That's a good question :-)
<MADodel> hello Ken
<Doug> Well - I guess everyone in the world who is not a paid member is in the isn't list.
<WalterOS2> Well, Vaughn looks after the mailing list, but Gord looks after the money. :-)
<WalterOS2> I guess I'll email both of them. <g>
<Doug> ok - any new business.
<WalterOS2> Doug: Because of the condition of the stuff we got from Peter, and the delay involved, that question isn't easy to answer re some people.
<MADodel> I had sent a bunch of memberships to Peter of people that joined/renewed at Warpstock. Peter never cashed my check.
<WalterOS2> Mark: I just sent Vaughn and Gord an email about that this morning.
<wdl> Mark: Cancel the check, and send a new one to Gord??
<WalterOS2> Mark: when did you send Peter the cheque?
<MADodel> Peter has all the membership forms, so I don't even have a list of names. Though I think we gave out some receipts
<MADodel> Walter: That was last October
<WalterOS2> Mark: We're trying to get the additional information from Peter now, but it "ain't easy" getting it.
<WalterOS2> Peter's not very responsive to inquiries. :-(
<MADodel> wdl: There were aso some personal checks sent. I just sent a check for those that paid in cash.
<wdl> Mark: Aargh. Sigh...
<Doug> Who does voice bank with?
<Doug> Is the membership list in some database?
<WalterOS2> Another thing: We know Peter left some money in the Kitimat for incoming cheques after he sent us most of it. We would like to close that account, but the fact that there's some money it, and Peter's non-responsiveness makes that difficult. :-(
<WalterOS2> Doug: [bleep!] in Toronto.
<Doug> Does [bleep!] have on-line banking?
<WalterOS2> Doug: yes; however it's not completely accurate for the reasons I've been discussing.
<WalterOS2> Doug: Naturally. :-)
<Doug> Does we need a database for tracking members and when they have paid, or are due?
<Doug> Does = do
<WalterOS2> The officials at the bank in Toronto can't/don't want to close the Kitimat account because Peter's still the sole signatory.
<MADodel> I think Peter kept the membership data in a database, but not sure what it was.
<WalterOS2> Doug: Well, it makes things a lot easier. That's the form Peter sent us what information did.
<wdl> Walter: It *is* time to pull out the heavy artillery!
<wdl> Walter: ...this *can't* go on!!!
<WalterOS2> DBExpert
<MADodel> Did Peter send a list of members?
<MADodel> That's it, I couldn't remember. Thanks Walter
<WalterOS2> wdl: Do you want to phone him again. That does make him mad enough to take action. :-)
<Doug> Do you all have a copy of the database?
<WalterOS2> Gord's looking after it.
<Doug> SO Gord has the database?
<WalterOS2> Right
<wdl> Walter: I can do that. But a visit from the law, or threat thereof, is what got him moving last time.
<MADodel> Peter had sent me an email last December saying he got the checks and had processed the memberships.
<WalterOS2> wdl: Your call also got some action.
<WalterOS2> However, if that isn't enough I write him a threatening letter.
<wdl> Walter: Were it me doing all this, I'd be at the threatening letter stage.
<WalterOS2> It's a pity we have to resort to this. :-(
<wdl> Walter: Yes, it *is* a pity. But we can't be held hostage like this...
<MADodel> Ken or Bill do you remember if you ave any receipts to anyone you took memberships from? Did we use a receipt book?
<Doug> What you are talking about is the remaining money in the Kitimat, correct? (what the heck is Kitimat?)
<MADodel> Kitimat is where Peter lives
<wdl> Mark: From Warpstock2003? We used a receipt book.
<MADodel> wdl: Thanks, I'll see if I have that
<wdl> ...I don't have any idea where it is. In the cash box, last time I saw.
<MADodel> I have the cash box. I'll look there.
<WalterOS2> It's a small town in British Columbia which Peter lives and where he has the old VOICE ([bleep!]) bank account.
<MADodel> WalterOS2: So the bank didn't care that you were the President of VOICE?
<WalterOS2> So I use expressions like [bleep!] Toronto and [bleep!] Kitimat. Sorry for the confusion.
<WalterOS2> Mark: I did send VOICE Toronto a fax, which showed me as President.
<wdl> Mark: "president" and "sole signatory" are mutually exclusive at the moment.
<Doug> That's OK. I thought manybe it was some strange Canadian business expression.
<WalterOS2> LOL
<wdl> Mark: ...that's part of why we *need* a Bylaws update.
<WalterOS2> Mind you, there are dozens of [bleep!] branches in Toronto, and probably only one in Kitimat. :-)
<Doug> Kitimat = petty cash, you know, something like that
<MADodel> wdl: Sigh. WIth Warpstock we have made sure to have at least three people with signature rights on thechecking account, though our treasurer writes almost all the checks.
<MADodel> How much is in the new VOICE account now?
<wdl> Mark: Yes - best way to go.
<WalterOS2> Around [bleep!]
<WalterOS2> I was horrified when I learned that the VOICE account had only one signatory.
<WalterOS2> Remember, this was setup BEFORE I came on board.
<MADodel> That goes back to the fact that Peter set it up and ran it all those years. There never was a problem until the past year or two.
<WalterOS2> I agree with Mark on how Warpstock is set up.
<WalterOS2> MADodel: That still doesn't make it advisable.
<MADodel> Agreed, but no one ever noticed before.
<WalterOS2> The actual branch where our new bank account is at [bleep!].
<WalterOS2> wdl: Why do you keep flagging?
<Doug> take it out of the log
<WalterOS2> Oh.
<wdl> Walter: Some things in the log are "sensitive". Some of those I censor.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<WalterOS2> Is there any other business?
<WalterOS2> If not, I have a technical question for the post-session session.
<Doug> should we entertain a motion to adjourn then?
<wdl> I move we adjourn.
<WalterOS2> I so move.
<Doug> all in flavor - say Aye
<wdl> Aye
<WalterOS2> Aye
<Doug> aye
<Doug> opposed?
<Doug> we are adjourned!
13:29:26 [ NB: "meeting is adjourned" ]