WarpDoctor - General Meeting for 2004-03-21
12:26:36 <WalterOS2> This meeting of Warpdoctor is now in session. :-)
<benji00> I was wondering what TTW was
<WalterOS2> The agenda is at http://www.warpdoctor.org/AGENDAS/warpdoc_2004-03-21.html
<WalterOS2> A. Old Business
<WalterOS2> 1. Status on plugin.
<WalterOS2> Doug?
<WalterOS2> (I swear even the keyboard is responding faster now!
<Doug> I have been coding some triggers to syncronize disk files with the database
<Doug> and the tool I was using was crashing after every 4-5 executions. So i divered a little attentiont to fix that.
<Doug> I it almost fixed.
<Doug> I can then finish with some triggers for the table that tracks files and URLs
<Doug> the fix for xPager seems to work perfectly with the plug-in
<WalterOS2> That's great.
<benji00> Since its my first time here, can I ask what the plug-in is for?
<WalterOS2> Doug, can you fill Benji in on the plugin?
<Doug> Sorry. The plug-in is a netscape type plugin that handles file transfer from the browser PC to the web server, among other things
<benji00> thanks
<Doug> actually - the plug-in is a plug-in that runs Rexx programs. The site runs on some DrDialog/DrRexx programs that utilize the plugin.
<Doug> You can also view the site without the plug-in, but there is no realy way to integrate sending a file from the pc to the web server without the plug-in
<WalterOS2> Doug: DrRexx:-- I've never been able to find that. Did you write it?
<Doug> No - DrDialog/DrRexx is a single package. DrDialog is a tool for making "dialogs" or visual applications
<WalterOS2> OK, thks.
<Doug> DrRexx is the "run-time" that runs Rexx applications built with DrDialog
<WalterOS2> OK, I C
<Doug> But you can use DrDialog as a resource editor/dialog builder for building dialog boxes, etc for use with other languages.
<WalterOS2> Is your WarpDoctor usable for demo today?
<Doug> let me look.
<WalterOS2> While Doug is looking,
<Doug> no, not today
<WalterOS2> let's start examining our Options wrt VOICE1.
<WalterOS2> Doug: OK, tks.
<WalterOS2> I was hoping to give Benji a look at it.
<benji00> maybe next time
<WalterOS2> Regarding VOICE1, we have 3 (I think) options.
<WalterOS2> 1. Leave it at TE and pay Holland $50 US per month.
<WalterOS2> 2. Move it Abel's (Hoss) place, where he has DSL.
<WalterOS2> 3. Move it to my place--I've got room and have cable.
<WalterOS2> (Make that four options. <g>)
<WalterOS2> 5. Move it to Ken's place, putting in a different building. Ken has a T1 connection.
<WalterOS2> 5. s/b 4.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<Doug> is voice1 to be the backup/mirror machine?
<WalterOS2> I don't think leaving it at TE is a viable option.
<WalterOS2> Yes
<Doug> this is a 700mhz machine isn't it?
<WalterOS2> Just a note: WarpedOS2 apparently isn't in a position to take the server, at least in the immediate future.
<WalterOS2> Did I get that right, Vaughn?
<WalterOS2> Doug: I'm not sure.
<MADodel> Any idea what the cost of shipping it would be? Will TE box it up for us?
<WalterOS2> Hello Mark.
<MADodel> hello Walter
<WalterOS2> I don't remember for sure, but I don't think we priced shipping earlier.
<WalterOS2> Hold on and I'll check the mail list.
<Doug> Ken - do you need voice1 to replace the machine that is now voice2 (or voice3 for that matter)?
<KenKrchnr> Voice2 is faster than voice1
<KenKrchnr> There are a couple of drives in voice1 that might be better than voice2, but that's not an imperative
<Doug> maybe we ought to ship it to ken for parts.
<KenKrchnr> I currently have a backup machine online anyway (running WD test rigtht now)
<WalterOS2> I couldn't find any reference to shipping.
<WarpedOS2> yes Walter you are correct
<KenKrchnr> From a backup standpoint a separate location is desirable. Even the second building here is on the same T1 line.
<Doug> my guess is that shipping would be somewhere between $50-$100
<WalterOS2> The plan last time was for Ed Scrutton and me to go to Michigan, pick it up, and get it packed for shipping.
<KenKrchnr> Sounds about right, Doug.
<Doug> how far is that?
<WalterOS2> Ken: I agree, and it's fed from the same power source as VOICE2.
<WalterOS2> About an 8-hour drive if I remember, probably a bit less.
<KenKrchnr> No, the second building has separate power.
<Doug> Ken - are you recommending putting the machine somewhere other than on the sprawling campus of Coloron?
<WalterOS2> I meant that it comes from the same area of the city power.
<KenKrchnr> I just think it's safer that way. The only thing I see in the options so far is that 2 and 3 are dynamic IP.
<Doug> Walter - your cable connection is not on continuously is it?
<WalterOS2> I have a program running to help compensate for that. Every so many minutes, it checks the IP address, and if it has changed, it updates the server's IP address.
<WalterOS2> Doug: Yes.
<WalterOS2> It is on continuously. :-)
<WalterOS2> My ISP has virtually no downtime. :-)
<Doug> but it the IP address changes, no one will be able to get to the machine will they?
<WalterOS2> The URL would always point to the machine.
<KenKrchnr> Yes, but the problem with dynamic IP has more to do with ISP's caching addresses than a published IP.
<benji00> walter is that a home brewed program that checks your IP?
<WalterOS2> I've actually tried it here when I ran Domino for a little while, and it works quite well.
<WalterOS2> No, it was written by someone else (I'll get his name) and released as freeware.
<benji00> k thanks
<Doug> how would a mirror or backup work? Are both machines "on-line" continuously, or does www.warpdoctor.org change to point to the running machine when one machine breaks?
<WalterOS2> It's a Java program, and I had a lot of input into at the development stage, so there's a special eCS-OS/2 version.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<WarpedOS2> Walter, not sure you seen it but have you tried JFTP 3.0?
<KenKrchnr> Right now the "backup" is standby, we would change the dns record if it was needed to go live.
<WalterOS2> I'm not sure about how the switching from Ken's machine to VOICE1 would take place, if that's what you're asking.
<WalterOS2> Thanks.
<KenKrchnr> (well, it would be standby if it was connected :-) )
<WalterOS2> No, is that DNS program.
<Doug> so someone you manually change the ip assigned to www.warpdoctor.org when something unseemly happened to the main machine?
<KenKrchnr> We can have the ip preset to redirect as failover.
<Doug> but that would require a known IP for the backup wouldn't it?
<KenKrchnr> Yes.
<Doug> walter - what is the speed of your cable connection?
<MADodel> But will the mirror be a true image copy of the primary? There is also the option of Innotek's Co-Standby server. Not sure if they would be willing to donate a copy.
<benji00> couldn't you just run a script that would update it all the time
<KenKrchnr> The mirror/backup would only be as fresh as the last sync.
<WalterOS2> The site containing the DNS client and the documentation is at: http://www.bashiro.com/soft/
<WarpedOS2> Mark..that Co-Stanby server is big bucks
<KenKrchnr> When voice2 was backup, it was sync'd each night.
<WalterOS2> Is Innotek's product designed to work over the Internet?
<WalterOS2> Like most cable connections, it varies with the number of customers online.
<WalterOS2> Hold on--I'll see if I can get a number for you.
<Doug> What is a good speed and what is a bad speed?
<Doug> seems like backup so the avoid three issues: hardware failure, power failure, internet connection failure
<Doug> so=is
<MADodel> WarpedOS2: I did say donate.
<benji00> what are you running to check the speed of the cable?
<WarpedOS2> Yes.. Mark...I would wonder if they would then "donate" for a product like that?
<MADodel> WalterOS2: My understanding is that the two machines have to have special cabling between them.
<Doug> Having the machine in another state solves all three issues (assuming it can be made to work)
<Doug> having the machine at a different building at Ken's place solves 1 or possibly 2 issues.
<Doug> Ken - how often does the power go out at your place?
<KenKrchnr> Hasn't gone out (for more than backup time) for 2 years.
<MADodel> The issue with having all three machines in the same location is a big issue. WHat if NJ falls into the ATlantic Ocean?
<WalterOS2> Doug: I can't find the speed right now. I'll get it and send it to the group.
<Doug> that would be bad, right?
<WalterOS2> I know that depending on the remote server, I can often download at 135 MBS or more.
<MADodel> Of course then I might have some valuable beachfront property.
<WalterOS2> But what you need to know is the upload speed, which is slower.
<KenKrchnr> Mark has cable, how about at Marks place? :-)
<MADodel> Mark isn't allowed to run servers.
<WalterOS2> Mark hasn't offered.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<Doug> How often does your IP address change walter?
<WalterOS2> About once a month.
<WalterOS2> But it is a variable.
<MADodel> Mark's ooutgoing bandwidth has been recently capped at about 256Kbps, though incoming was increased to 3Mbps.
<KenKrchnr> Is Walter *allowed* to run a server? Mark is right in that most residential cable connections specifically prohibit such activities.
<WalterOS2> I would have to check.
<WalterOS2> However, we weren't allowed to use routers at the beginning, and so many people were using them anyway, now that restriction is gone.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<WalterOS2> They don't block any ports, I know that.
<MADodel> When I signed for my cable there was no restriction on servers, but they added it about a year later. They don't bother me for the IRCD or the HTTP I run, but both are real low bandwidth. And I can't run either on standard ports as those are blocked.
<WalterOS2> I don't think there would be a problem as long as it's a backup server with low traffic volume.
<WalterOS2> Rogers, my ISP, has been adding hardware like crazy, so I don't think they're tight for hardware.
<Doug> well - it looks to me that the big advantage to moving voice1 to walter's place is that walter is willing to go get it
<Doug> the big advantage to moving it to Ken's place is that ken has a T1 with static IPs and it would probably be slightly easier to setup and maintain
<Doug> ken - what do you see as the issues?
<KenKrchnr> Here it doesn't offer as much protection.
<KenKrchnr> I already have a separate machine that can be switched to with the same IP.
<KenKrchnr> The insurance we don't have here is prolonged power failure, or internet connection outage.
<KenKrchnr> Like Doug says, setup and maintenace is easier locally, but overall it negates the value of the backup.
<Doug> with two machines at Ken's I wouldn't think that we are going to be down for any extended length of time
<Doug> so the connection speed to Walter's place is probably not that critical
<Doug> and it the IP address only changes once a month, or even once every two weeks, that would be that big of deal would it?
<WalterOS2> two machines: Isn't one of them just for Warpdoctor?
<KenKrchnr> Only while we're testing. Once the new WD site is ready it'll be on voice2
<WalterOS2> As I've said, I've tried out JIP while running Domino, and Ken and I played around a bit. Believe it or not, it did work.
<KenKrchnr> And while the testing is being done, that machine is being used to backup voice2 nightly.
<WalterOS2> However that was a limited test.
<Doug> well - with the cost of hardware what it is now, I wouldn't think that voice1 is worth more than $200 or so.
<benji00> gotta go for now. I'll try and check in next week. Nice talking to every one. (Bob Bencivenga - OS/2 Die Hard)
<WalterOS2> I doubt it. I believe it's a 486.
<Doug> bye bob
<KenKrchnr> Bye Bob
<WalterOS2> Someone correct if I'm wrong.
<WalterOS2> correct me.
<WarpedOS2> Hi Jeremy
<Doug> I think someone said that it was a pentium 700 with some large IDE hard drives
<Doug> but even that isn't worth much
<WalterOS2> Hi Jeremy.
<WalterOS2> Yes.. there's lots of hard drive space, most of it SCSI I believe.
<KenKrchnr> I think it is a 550
<MADodel> Doug: VOICE1 had SCSIUW or U2 drives.
<KenKrchnr> 2 x 18, 2 x 36 G
<Doug> well the hard drives are worth something then
<Rat-Salad> hey
<MADodel> And the SCSI controller
<Doug> but I picked up a 72gb SCSI 160 for about $150 6 months or a year ago.
<WarpedOS2> Doug - What brand of HD's
<Doug> IBM - now hitatichi
<WarpedOS2> Good price then!
<WarpedOS2> 7200 or 10k
<Doug> 10k
<WarpedOS2> even better
<Doug> my vote is: if walter is willing to go pick up voice1 and either set it up at his place, or part it out, that would be the best alternative
<Doug> Walter - do you really want to make an 8 hour trip?
<WarpedOS2> will Voice organization reimberse Walter for $$$ spent for gas to some degree?
<Doug> I would think that is only fair
<MADodel> At Walter's it would at worse serve as a backup of all the files. If something happened to the data at Ken's, we would have an offsite backup. Of course any of us could be doing that on our own machine.
<WarpedOS2> me too
<MADodel> Has anything been straightened out with the VOICE treasury?
<WalterOS2> Mark: You missed yesterday's meeting. :-(
<MADodel> Yes, sorry, but I was out all day.
<WalterOS2> Everything is on track, the money is at a bank near Gord, our new treasurer, and the money has been moved.
<WalterOS2> BMT and Mensys have notified of the new details.
<MADodel> That is good news.
<WalterOS2> Doug: That's not really a problem. However I would need to see if Ed is still willing to help out.
<MADodel> Did Peter by any chance send the check from Warpstock 2003, which was for most of the VOICE memberships collected there? According to my last checking statement, that check still had not been cashed.
<WalterOS2> Probably not. Gord is in the process of finding out what needs to paid, and then paying it.
<WalterOS2> It's a huge job. We really owe a vote of thanks to Gord.
<WalterOS2> My biggest concern about the server thing is getting it across the border. The customs officials are really getting sticky.
<WarpedOS2> Run the border Walter, Run the border... :-O
<WalterOS2> To avoid any problems, I would check with them first, find out what documentation we need, and get it done before the trip.
<MADodel> It is ancient by computer standards. So its value is minimal.
<WalterOS2> I was trying to check the Rogers EUA, but Acrobat can't read it. :-(
<WarpedOS2> Walter,,, a friend of mine takes his computer system back and forth to bible school lots so will see what he experiences..at the border
<WalterOS2> I may have to use VPC/2.
<WarpedOS2> back and forth across the border I mean
<WalterOS2> When is he/she due to make the next trip?
<WalterOS2> Mark, do you know where VOICE1 component list is?
<WalterOS2> It would keep me from having to search all through my email. :-)
<MADodel> I can look back, but I don't know who would have it. Maybe Abel knows what was in there. I know the harddrives as I ordered those. But that was about the extent of my involvement.
<WarpedOS2> He is going possibly as early as next month to Colorado
<WalterOS2> made. Where do you want us to send it?
<WalterOS2> WarpedOS2: tkx
<Rat-Salad> I'm think it was like a K6-2 or K6-3 500mhz system
<WalterOS2> tks
<Rat-Salad> thinking
<MADodel> Let me see if I can find the email where Dan described what was purchased.
<wdl> TTW's giving me a 10-minute warning...
<Doug> tell ttw I said hello
<wdl> WILCO...
<WalterOS2> wdl: When are you upgrading to a network?
<WalterOS2> We've pretty much covered everything on the agenda, if not in the right order.
<wdl> Walter: Not real soon. Building structural problems, her OS, misc. other things.
<wdl> Walter: ...but one day, certainly.
<Doug> move to appease TTW
<WalterOS2> right.
<WalterOS2> Is there a second?
<wdl> I'd better second that. She's standing right over my shoulder. :-(
<WalterOS2> All in favour of adjourning, please type Aye.
<Doug> aye
<wdl> Aye
<KenKrchnr> Aye
<Rat-Salad> the boss :)
13:55:48 <WalterOS2> Motion is carried. Meeting adjourned.