WarpDoctor - General Meeting for 2004-01-18
12:06:05 <WalterOS2> This meeting of Warpdoctor is now in session.
<WalterOS2> Has everyone read the adgenda? :-)
<wdl> Yup.
<WalterOS2> I'm glad to see that 1 person at least is prepared. :-)
<Gord> yes
<WalterOS2> Make that 2.
<KenKrchnr> Me three
<wdl> But I didn't see the commercial version. ;-)
<WalterOS2> 4 if you count me.
<WalterOS2> Hi Ken
<WalterOS2> Bill :-)
<WalterOS2> Hi Kris
<Kris> Hello!
<WalterOS2> Any problems downloading it this time?
<WalterOS2> OK, let's get started.
<Kris> Downloading what?
<WalterOS2> The agenda at http://www.warpdoctor.org/Agendas/warpdoc_2004-01-18.html
<Kris> NNo problem
<WalterOS2> The URL should be at the top of your screen, or somewhere else.
<WalterOS2> Good.
<WalterOS2> OK, let's get started.
<WalterOS2> A Old Business
<WalterOS2> 1. Redbooks.
<WalterOS2> Thanks to NielsJ and Ken, they've all been downloaded.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<KenKrchnr> Ken didn't do anything. It was all Niels.
<WalterOS2> We can add them to the WD database once the engine is built, or if someone's in a hurry we could set up a URL before then.
<wdl> "URL before then" would be nice.
<WalterOS2> It's nice to know we have them so their available even if IBM decides to delete them.
<Kris> Right.
<WalterOS2> Bill: Hang on...
<WalterOS2> Ken, can you tell us where the directory is? I can't seem to find it.
<Doug> how many redbooks did Niels end up getting?
<KenKrchnr> http://www.warpdoctor.org/files/redbooks/redbooks
<WalterOS2> I keep forgetting about the /files subdirectory. :-)
<WalterOS2> Unfortunately, abstracts and descriptions of the files aren't available yet.
<wdl> URL: Kewl. Thanks.
<KenKrchnr> Niels did u/l the abstracts, we just haven't built a page yet.
<WalterOS2> OK.
<WalterOS2> Personally, I'd like to delete one of the /delete sub-directories so that the URL is /files/redbooks.
<KenKrchnr> We will, Neils hadn't realized the url I gave him to u/l was the redbooks by default.
<WalterOS2> Thanks.
<WalterOS2> Anything else about redbooks?
<WalterOS2> OK, let's move on.
<wdl> Is Niels' collection *all* the ones related to Warp???
<WalterOS2> A2. Status of XPager problem
<WalterOS2> wdl: It's supposed to be. I haven't checked them myself.
<WalterOS2> A2: XPager.
<WalterOS2> Doug have you heard anything from Bart?
<Doug> wdl - my guess is that there is probably another 20 or 30 redbooks of interest to us
<wdl> I thought there should be...
<WalterOS2> Do either of you have broadband?
<wdl> I do not.
<Doug> I do
<Kris> I do
<WalterOS2> Doug: Could you send a list of the ones you want to both Kris and me?
<WalterOS2> Then if Kris is willing, he can get them and upload them, once I look them over.
<WalterOS2> Or you could do it yourself? VBG
<Doug> I can send the ones that I have that (I think aren't in the list)
<Kris> OK. Just give me the right URL and instructions please
<WalterOS2> What are their names?
<Doug> But I think it will take a couple of us just browsing through the books and indexs to find all the ones we are interested.
<Doug> One example I have is: Setting up SAMBA.
<WalterOS2> OK, then please send me the list of them so I can see what's their as well.
<Doug> This is not directly related to OS/2, but it is of interest to OS/2 clients that run on a LINUX type network.
<WalterOS2> Like Jeremy.
<WalterOS2> OK, that's fine.
<WalterOS2> Just go ahead and upload the ones you think would be helpful.
<Doug> Ok - i'll also poke around in the redbooks site and see what else might be of interest
<WalterOS2> Get Kris to assist you.
<Doug> Sorry walter - I see now that you asked if I heard anything from Bart. The answer is no.
<WalterOS2> Are we ready for the next item on the agenda?
<WalterOS2> A2. Status of XPager problem
<WalterOS2> <Doug> Sorry walter - I see now that you asked if I heard anything from Bart. The answer is no.
<WalterOS2> I've added Bart to the Warpdoctor mailing list, so he got the announcement.
<Doug> Jen and I exchanged emails this last week though
<WalterOS2> Maybe he'll show up later.
<WalterOS2> Who's Jen?
<Doug> Jen-Erik
<WalterOS2> Does he work on the Netlabs/XPager?
<Doug> Sorry - Jan-Erik Larka
<Doug> No - he has problems with DrDialog and xPager. When he opens DrDialog and puts the cursor in any MLE field, xPager stops working
<WalterOS2> I should say XWorkplace instead of XPager.
<Doug> I cannot get that to happen on my machine.
<WalterOS2> OK. Did he say anything interesting?
<WalterOS2> Besides that.
<Doug> So I am hoping that he and I can isolate it down to some setting, or conflict between xPager, DrDialog and some other application or DLL
<WalterOS2> OK, good.
<Doug> He set me his config.sys and I am going to try and see what settings and apps he has that I don't, and I will try and duplicate the problem
<WalterOS2> It probably wouldn't hurt to cc: Bart on your emails so he's kept in the loop.
<WalterOS2> In case he decides to do something.
<Doug> I suspect we have a better chance of getting xPager fixed if we can isolate the problem to something more specific.
<WalterOS2> The more info he has the more likely he is to fix it IMO.
<WalterOS2> Doug: right.
<Doug> I'll make sure Bart is informed of any results we get
<WalterOS2> thx
<WalterOS2> In all fairness to Bart, it must be tough going through a large, complex program that you didn't right.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<WalterOS2> write even.
<Doug> Oh - I understand his problem completely.
<Doug> These are the toughest problems to find and fix
<WalterOS2> Plus a lot of progammers/developers don't document their code very well.
<WalterOS2> Doug: I'm sure that's not true of you, of course. :-)
<Doug> Even if the code details are documented well, you still have to understand the BIG PICTURE, which is very difficult to document, and usually there is no good place to put that documentation
<WalterOS2> Absolutely. I used to be a developer, so I know what you're talking about.
<WalterOS2> Any more comments on XPager?
<WalterOS2> Then I guess we should move on.
<WalterOS2> A. New Business
<WalterOS2> B1: Switch-over of VOICE/Warpdoctor to new server.
<WalterOS2> a. Status report.
<WalterOS2> Ken, would like to give us an update?
<KenKrchnr> Everything is now switched, well, all active services and pages. There are a few web pages that don't seem to be in use.
<KenKrchnr> I need to see what they're for, and if they're still needed or can be mapped to another page that is active.
<KenKrchnr> If anyone knows what os2voice.com is for it would help.
<wdl> It's a "Welcome" to VOICE... Last (C) is 2002.
<WalterOS2> I have no idea.
<KenKrchnr> I saw that, but it mentioned some "encrypted" content. But there is no link there.
<wdl> Uh, "Welcome" to VOICE... " = and to Warpdoctor.
<KenKrchnr> Perhaps it was from the time voice wanted to do an online software sales deal?
<wdl> Hitting the voice logo gets me to a 1 Jan 2004 item...
<wdl> Warpdoctor logo is active too.
<WalterOS2> Ken: I don't think so.
<KenKrchnr> I couldn't find any reason for its existence, maybe we should just map it to www.os2voice.org?
<WalterOS2> Ken: The safest thing might be to move it the new server but don't give it a link. In other words store in a backup or archive directory.
<KenKrchnr> OK, that'll work (it's backed up already)
<WalterOS2> Then in a year or so, we'll know if we need it, and if not we can delete.
<WalterOS2> If we do, then it will be there.
<WalterOS2> I do that sometimes on my system with files that I'm not sure are necessary.
<WalterOS2> Anything else?
<KenKrchnr> The other thing we'll still need to decide on is what we're going to do about Warpdoctor web server.
<WalterOS2> Could you explain please? What to do how?
<KenKrchnr> I've tried LDGW on 4 different systems and none seem to like it. I always get wps lockups aftaer the initial logo loads.
<WalterOS2> What seems to be cause? Do you know?
<KenKrchnr> Doug has seen that on thetest server, once ldgw is loaded, dtoc will crash when it tries to access the desktop.
<KenKrchnr> I've not found any way to circumvent it, but Roderick says Mensys runs that, and has no problem.
<WalterOS2> Could it be an incompatibility between OS/2 4.5 /eComStation, which is fairly new, and LDGW, which is fairly old?
<WalterOS2> We need to find out what Roderick/Mensys is doing differently from us.
<KenKrchnr> I tried it on; WSeB, eCS 1.0, eCS 1.1 and WSA (Warp 4 base)
<WalterOS2> Roderick:- Can you offer any insights?
<WalterOS2> Ken: hmm...
<WalterOS2> Roderick:-are you still here?
<KenKrchnr> The closest I got to success was on eCS 1.1 on my T40. At least I actually saw the status window come up on that one.
<KenKrchnr> But shortly after I tried to close the window my wps crashed.
<WalterOS2> blasted WPS. :-(
<WalterOS2> Sometimes it can be so fussy.
<WalterOS2> Other times it can run for a week or more without a problem.
<KenKrchnr> The second problem I have with ldgw is it's lack of logging options.
<WalterOS2> Please elaborate.
<KenKrchnr> Right now Apache is running combined logs, and I can seperate web sites within for stats.
<KenKrchnr> LDGW won't log the site name, so I can't differentiate, as in;
<KenKrchnr> warpdoctor.org/webstats/clean
<WalterOS2> That's not helpful.
<KenKrchnr> The stats get automatically generated on the 1st, 11th and 21st.
<WalterOS2> I just love hard-coded options. NOT!
<wdl> LDGW is...?
<KenKrchnr> I need to try ldgw on the backup server I was running while voice2 was being straightened out.
<KenKrchnr> Lotus Domino Go Webserver.
<wdl> Tnx.
<WalterOS2> Written by IBM/Lotus but know it is orphaned.
<WalterOS2> :-(
<WalterOS2> now even...Grr
<KenKrchnr> Then we'd have a second option for Waarpdoctor. It's own server.
<KenKrchnr> Doug, what version of Warp are you running ldgw on?
<WalterOS2> So we'd be talking about two servers for VOICE. VOICE itself and Warpdoctor. Right?
<Doug> Ken - do you have the document Webmaster's Guide for LDGW?
<KenKrchnr> Yes, to both of you :-)
<WalterOS2> Ken: The only problem I see with 2 servers is try to backup and/or mirror both of them.
<Doug> I am currently running LDGW on WSeB, but I have also run it on Warp 4 on a number of different machine
<Doug> s
<KenKrchnr> Not a problem to backup.
<WalterOS2> Ken: What about mirroring?
<WalterOS2> We'd need two different OSes on the mirror, wouldn't we?
<Doug> mirroring is going to be much more complex than I orignially thought
<KenKrchnr> A mirror would require a means to run the 2 sites the same as the primary site.
<WalterOS2> ??
<KenKrchnr> If we go Apache + LDGW, the mirror would need to be the same.
<Doug> I think Ken is saying: to mirror voice and Warpdoctor would require 2 additional machines
<Doug> one for apache/voice, one for wd/ldgw
<WalterOS2> Doug: That's what I was afraid of.
<KenKrchnr> The other option might be to use LDGW to serve WD, then have it passthru all other requests.
<WalterOS2> Ken: how much effort is required to switch over to Apache, now that you've fixed the logging problem?
<KenKrchnr> LDGW is supposed to have good capabilities that way, but I haven't yet tested that scenario.
<WalterOS2> Ken: I'm confused again. :-(
<WalterOS2> I get that way easily. Premature Alzheimer's.
<KenKrchnr> LDGW has a supposedly better redirect mechanism that Apache. If that works, all requests would go to LDGW, and it would give Apache the requests that aren't its own.
<KenKrchnr> It would then act as a proxy to return the pages to the client.
<WalterOS2> I think I understand that.
<WalterOS2> But wouldn't we still need machines on the mirror site?
<WalterOS2> two machines....
<KenKrchnr> If the redirects work well, both Apache and LDGW could be on the same machine. Just a different port. Or bound to an alias address.
<WalterOS2> But WarpDoctor doesn't work on LDGW.
<KenKrchnr> Warpdoctor is designed for LDGW :-)
<KenKrchnr> That's what Doug is using for all his work.
<WalterOS2> Ken: So what do you want to do?
<KenKrchnr> Doug, what was the problem you ran into with Apache?
<Doug> The problem I ran into with Apache was a very long delay between when it finished a CGI request and when it actually sent the data?
<Doug> We have been assumming that is caused by apache not closing the tcp socket, but we don't konw that for sure
<WalterOS2> Wasn't there also a problem with indefinitely long logs?
<KenKrchnr> Was there any specific cgi type we could test against?
<KenKrchnr> The log problem with Apache has been dealt with. It's now working very well.
<WalterOS2> OK, good.
<Doug> If I remember right - the problem was with almost all the cgi programs
<Doug> IBM Web server didn't have that problem, but had some other problem that I don't remember.
<Doug> And previous versions of Apache had a different problem than either IBM web server or Apache v 2.x
<Doug> So I think basically its down to pick your poison
<KenKrchnr> All WD CGI? Or any other cgi we'd have? I have a limited number of services running, so there may be something I don't see.
<KenKrchnr> Maybe we can try the newer Apache and see if the problem is still there. If it is, I don't see any alternative to 2 web servers.
<Doug> well - on the new site, almost all requests are routed throught 2 cgi programs. Most of those requests end up being served by the database.
<KenKrchnr> I'll try to get that this week, and then we can make a decision as to the next step.
<Doug> The problem I remember seeing was specificly related to requests that go through the database - but that ends up being almost all the requests on the new site.
<WalterOS2> Ken: Maybe you should copy VOICE's WarpDoctor over to your WD site, and run it in a parallel for a week or two.
<WalterOS2> Then you would have a better chance of seeing the same problems Doug has.
<WalterOS2> Or copy Doug's WD.
<Doug> Ken - I am more puzzled by the mysterious screen/black hole of crash that ldgw puts up one your system
<Doug> which I have experienced on your server
<KenKrchnr> Come to think of it, we _did_ start with Apache on the testbed. That's why we switched.
<Doug> Ken - would it help the logging if we built WD specific logging into the site/database
<KenKrchnr> That one's a real pain. I tried 2 versions of ldgw and several machines. I just could not get a satisfactory run.
<KenKrchnr> No, the logging that we'd need to pull out is all the other sites.
<Doug> Since - on the new site - EVERYTHING goes through CGI and the database - it would not be that big of deal to build logging into the CGI program
<WalterOS2> Ken: How difficult is it to switch OSes on the WD site on a test basis?
<WalterOS2> From LDGW to Apache?
<KenKrchnr> We can switch on the test machine.
<WalterOS2> Let's do what we can to get both sites running on the same OS.
<WalterOS2> If we just can't do it, then of course we'll have to use 2 machines.
<WalterOS2> sites=VOICE.ORG and WARPDOCTOR.ORG
<Doug> Ken - ahh (the light goes off). You can differentiate voice from warpstock either, can you?
<KenKrchnr> Under Apache, my log shows what site the entry pertains to.
<KenKrchnr> Under ldgw I don't have any way to tell which site was accessed.
<Doug> ( I mean the ligth goes on)
<KenKrchnr> We have; warpdoctor, os2voice, warpstock, forums, de, and irc. (at least)
<Doug> Is the german stuff handled on the same machine as the english stuff?
<KenKrchnr> Yes. Everything is on he same server.
<KenKrchnr> Let me do some testing this week, then we can see what we need to do.
<Doug> It might be possible to fix the Apache problem. I was planning to convert the programs from CGI into LDGW and Apache internal programs anyway - it might be that that fixes the delay problem
<KenKrchnr> B.1.b FTP problems ;-)
<WalterOS2> OK, sounds like a plan.
<WalterOS2> Right.
<WalterOS2> B1b: FTP
<WalterOS2> We need to do something to fix that.
<KenKrchnr> FTP seems to be working fine now.
<WalterOS2> With passive off, I can't upload to your server at all.
<WalterOS2> With passive on, I can upload 1 file at a time.
<WalterOS2> :-(
<KenKrchnr> When did you try?
<WalterOS2> Several days ago.
<KenKrchnr> The agenda went up with passive off, was there any problem?
<KenKrchnr> The translate people have been busy at work, and I see no more error aborts from them.
<WalterOS2> The agenda was published by HomePage Publisher.
<WalterOS2> I don't know what settings it uses.
<WalterOS2> My Emtec always uses Passive On.
<WalterOS2> Do you want me to publish the Agenda with Emtec?
<WalterOS2> Don't the translate people generally upload one file at a time?
<WalterOS2> Let me conduct a couple of quick tests.....
<KenKrchnr> Christian gave the thing a good workout, uploads, downloads, deletes.
<wdl> WalterOs2: "upload 1 file at a time" - timing problem?
<Doug> Maybe walter is saying that the FTP server does not allow the same user to be logged on multiple times
<wdl> I used to have that problem with GTIRC. Wenta away when I put SWAPPER.DAT on a HDD that never is accessed otherwise during OS/2 sessions.
<Doug> I know that I have that "problem" with FTP. But it isn't a big deal to me
<WalterOS2> I just now try to send a batch of files, and got 2 up. Then I got the message "Server returned an error while executing STOR"
<WalterOS2> I get the same problem every time I try.
<KenKrchnr> No, Emtec does have uploading problems, it's "flawed". But it does that with other sites as well.
<WalterOS2> Well, I don't have those problems on VOICE1.
<WalterOS2> What ftp client would you recommend?
<WalterOS2> :-)
<KenKrchnr> Mark had that same problem with voice1, we tried working with Peter Moylan, but it didn't really help. Not that he didn't try.
<Gord> Have you tried NFTP?
<WalterOS2> Yes, and I can't stand the thing.
<Gord> Oh
<WalterOS2> That's if what I think it is.
<KenKrchnr> Walter, try to u/l with the FTP PM, just for a test.
<wdl> Aargh. "that problem with GTIRC". I *meant* FTP Browser.
<Doug> NFTP???
<KenKrchnr> FTP Browser is also "flawed", I have that one.
<WalterOS2> I'll do it as a test, but that's a pile of garbage as well, because if you lose your desktop or reinstall, all the templates and other info you've built have to be redone.
<Gord> A text mode FTP client, by Segey Ayukov, runs in a VIO window.
<wdl> Yes, flawed - dates especially. But the upload problem has gone away after I re-positioned SWAPPER.DAT to an "inactive" HDD.
<KenKrchnr> NcFTP works, as does the "F" file manager that Christian uses.
<WalterOS2> I'm trying it now.
<KenKrchnr> SFTP works, but is a pain for u/l's
<KenKrchnr> Emtec forgets what remote directory it's in after it uploads a file or 2.
<Doug> has anyone tried ftp ifs with peter's ftp server?
<KenKrchnr> Netdrive?
<Doug> netdrive is a different application, but the same concept
<Doug> ftp host = OS/2 disk drive letter
<Doug> but now that you mention it - has anyone tried netdrive with Voicex?
<KenKrchnr> I d/l'd it yesterday, but I haven't installed yet. I hate to reboot :-)
<Doug> I have used FTP-IFS to edit files (using EPM) located on a Linux machine - it worked great.
<WalterOS2> OK, I tried FTP-PM, but it uploaded each file separately, giving me a "status report" indicating its length after each one.
<WalterOS2> There's no way to indicate Passive on that program, and it has no restart capability.
<KenKrchnr> You need to turn off the "Confirmation" thingy. One of the menu items.
<WalterOS2> I did.
<WalterOS2> I guess I just won't do uploads anymore. :-)
<KenKrchnr> We just need to find a good ftp client. Vaughn had suggested JFTP, but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.
<WalterOS2> I'm beginning to think there aren't any decent ones for OS/2.
<Doug> how about command line ftp?
<WalterOS2> I spent the better part of the day looking for something, and couldn't find anything. :-(
<WalterOS2> I don't know ftp commands.
<WalterOS2> Besides, why does it work on VOICE1 but not on VOICE2
<Doug> they are real easy - let me see if it can upload with something like *.*
<WalterOS2> I "could" setting up a special port in my firewall for ftp transfers, so I wouldn't need passive mode.
<WalterOS2> I'm not sure it would work, but it's worth a try.
<KenKrchnr> That's the strange part. Both servers use FTP ver 1.15 now.
<KenKrchnr> Walter, you shouldn't need passive, HPP u/l'd port mode.
<KenKrchnr> Well, here's a real kick. I just used the FTP Host template and d'n'd a bunch of files to voice2. It worked.
<WalterOS2> I tried to u/l a batch of files without passive mode, and it worked.
<WalterOS2> Why did I find earlier that I couldn't access your server without it, I wonder.
<KenKrchnr> That was pre last Saturday.
<WalterOS2> What did you do last Saturday?
<KenKrchnr> I put voice2 back online. And while doing that I took it out from behind our firewall and installed its own firewall sw.
<WalterOS2> Oh.
<WalterOS2> How do I access Warpdoctor.org on VOICE1?
<WalterOS2> warpdoctor1.org?
<KenKrchnr> voice1.os2voice.org
<WalterOS2> For Warpdoctor?
<KenKrchnr> It all maps to the same server.
<KenKrchnr> One of the reasons people had trouble with ftp was that voice2 would show our firewall address when using port mode. If you had a firewall it looked like an unrequested ftp access.
<WalterOS2> I uploaded the same batch of files to voice1 without passive and it worked OK as well.
<WalterOS2> Oh well, even if we didn't fix the problem we got around it. :-)
<WalterOS2> Thanks for your patience and help.
<KenKrchnr> The problem with sporadic connection failures on passive mode I'll never admit to, but I will say that 25532 + 7 doesn't equal 25530 ;-)
<eCSNL> oke I'm off
<eCSNL> sorry
<eCSNL> Hmmm I can stick around a few more minutes
<WalterOS2> Guys, I have to go for supper in about 90 secs. :-)
<WalterOS2> Bye Roderick
<WalterOS2> I'll leave you to continue the meeting if you want to, but it is late.
<Doug> before we all go - I sent out a little something to the mailing list about warpin
<WalterOS2> OK, thanks.
<WalterOS2> Will someone move to adjourn?
<Doug> move to adjourn
<WalterOS2> All in favour.
<wdl> Aye.
<KenKrchnr> BTW, mail has been fine for a week so far
<KenKrchnr> Aye
<WalterOS2> Thanks. Glad to hear it.
<Doug> aye
<WalterOS2> Aye
<WalterOS2> :-)
<JonOS2> could you spare me some minutes though?
<Doug> I can
<JonOS2> it's about your hardware list...
<Doug> go ahead
<Gord> Aye
<JonOS2> there was something that concerned me when I checked http://www.warpdoctor.org/irclogs/2003/04-20-03.log yesterday
<JonOS2> and I would like to straighten things up, to say thing explicitly so that later there's won't be any issues
<JonOS2> so what I would like to know is what warpdoctor's plans are for the hardware list
<Doug> I can try and answer that if you want
<JonOS2> well... someone seemed to suggest to take my hardware list as a basis for yours...
<Doug> ??
<JonOS2> Doug: check url I typed above (irc log)
<Doug> looking
<JonOS2> and since os2warp.be and warpdoctor haven't reached an agreement some time ago, I'd like to clarify some things...
<wdl> JonOS2: There never was any follow-up; the subject was dropped, I think...
<JonOS2> yeah, anyway... here goes ;):
<JonOS2> I, Jonas Buys, cannot and will not agree that my copyrighted materials are used as basis for other projects
<JonOS2> before I continue, could you tell me what plans are for warpdoctor's hardwarelist?
<Doug> I will try
<Doug> 1) we plan to have two "lists" - one called Drivers that lists hardware drivers by manufacturer that work with OS/2 or WinOS/2
<JonOS2> ONLY list of drivers?
<Doug> and one called HCL - which lists by hardware type, instructions for how to make that hardware work with OS/2
<Doug> An HCL entry will cross-reference to one or more driver entries
<JonOS2> so if I get right, then you're only going to make a list of drivers? and not a devices list?
<Doug> Each driver and/or HCL entry will have an HTML/Text area where the author inputs instructions, if needed, for how to install the driver or hardware item
<Doug> No - (if I understand the question) we are doing both: devices = HCL, drivers = drivers
<JonOS2> i c
<Doug> For example: the HCL section will have an entry for Matrox. The driver section will have entries for Matrox, SicTech and IBM GRADD
<Doug> The HCL entry for Matrox will describe the advantages of each driver and cross reference to each of the drivers
<Doug> Does that make sense?
<JonOS2> Doug: so a device can only be Matrox, no more in detail? so no entries for MGA-450, MGA-550...?
<Doug> In the case of Matrox - there will probably be a separate entry for Millenium and whatever the other board is
<Doug> If a user is looking for " how do I install a matrox millenum" he would look in the HCL section, If
<Doug> he is looking for a specific driver - he would look in the driver section
<JonOS2> hmm... can I be sure you guys are NOT going to rob data from my hardware list (forgive me expression)?
<Doug> All drivers (we hope) will have links to the actual driver software
<Doug> I don't think anyone on the WarpDoctor team will do that - however, it is possible, and even likely that users out there will
<Doug> Since that happens in almost all other aspects of the web
<wdl> JonOS2: Nobody here has any intention of using copyrighted material without explicit permission. Right guys?
<Gord> Jonus, Do you have a concern with WarpDoctor also having a hardware list? (other than we should NOT copy your list)
<Gord> Right, Bill
<JonOS2> Gord: in fact I do
<Gord> What is that?
<JonOS2> anyway: I can be sure my "copyrighted materials" are not edited, rearraged etc?
<wdl> JonOS2: Copyright means copyright. Under US law what you imply might happen would be a violation of copyright.
<Doug> If someone cuts and pastes from your site to ours, and we know about it, we will remove it. However, if someone lists on our site a driver that you also list on your site, we would not
<JonOS2> Doug:makes sense... anyway, I closely look at the copyrights, and I'll let you know if I have any problems
<JonOS2> Gord: well, from what I've heard I have small impression, but haven't you got something what I can see about what your plans are?
<Doug> ok - good. If you see a problem, please let us know
<JonOS2> I assure I will not copy you projects, we have a clear direction at os2warp.be
<Doug> We have a brief document that describes the site (or site to be). It is oriented toward the site design, but you misght find it useful.
<JonOS2> url = ?
<Doug> I will try and find it an send it to you
<Doug> Let me look.
<JonOS2> oh yeah, one more thing... about drivers
<JonOS2> perhaps you know some drivers have homepage on os2warp.be?
<Doug> did not know that
<JonOS2> I would like to ask NOT to host the drivers yourselves, but just link to us. In exchange we will make sure that url doesn't change and that users are always going to get the latest drivers
<wdl> JonOS2: We might *reference* them, if you have such. But *NOT* copy them.
<JonOS2> does that sound interesting for you?
<JonOS2> it's just to make sure it's always the newest driver people use
<JonOS2> that's easier for support from developers
<Doug> to be very frank - we were planning to store a copy of each driver and other software that exist, but to always LINK from our site to the appropriate site
<Doug> The stored copy would be used if the company went out of business
<Doug> so if your site contains the actual "approved" or official copy, we would link to your site.
<JonOS2> Doug: hŠhŠ, I do that too :) but os2warp.be won't get offline that easy
<Doug> good - very good. Our fear is that something might happen to hobbes, or other sites that contain valuable OS/2 stuff, and we don't want that to disappear forever
<JonOS2> IF Hobbes would ever get offline, then I'll find a way to keep it online. I assure you
<JonOS2> hobbes is far too valuable
<Doug> we completely agree. There is all sorts of other little stuff out there that is not on hobbes, but is valuable to the OS/2 community.
<Doug> Example _ I just ran across a company that makes touch screens that has drivers for OS/2
<Doug> we will want to link to that site, and to make sure that the driver would always be available, if possible
<wdl> Anyone know if David? Rock still is the "biggie" responsible for Hobbes' existence?
<JonOS2> Gord: any success with the url?
<Doug> I'm still looking for the document
<Gord> It was Doug who was looking for the URL
<wdl> There's a motion on the floor - to adjourn. Seconded. Have the rest *after* the meeting?
<Doug> ok
<wdl> My wife's doing gher toe-tapping again... ;-)
<KenKrchnr> http://www.warpdoctor.org/lib/info/wd2.pdf Is this the one?
<Gord> It has received many "ayes". But was not declared carried.
<Doug> that may be it - let me look
<Doug> I will send it to JonOS2, which ever one it is
<Gord> My wife has evil-eye going too.
<JonOS2> ok, could you tell the rest of warpdoctor crew about my concern?
<Doug> I will mention it at the next meeting
<Gord> Well, since motion to adjourn was not carried, it may remain part of the log!
<JonOS2> yeah, sorry that I made it last longer :)
<Gord> No problem there.
<Doug> thats ok
<Doug> JonOS2 - that is the document. It is somewhat out of date, but it tells of our goals
<Doug> I will email it to you.
<Doug> Bye guys - I have to go too
<wdl> WalterOS2 is asleep?
<JonOS2> cu!
<wdl> KenKrchnr: Will you say the magic words?
15:12:38 <KenKrchnr> Meeting is adjourned