WarpDoctor - General Meeting for 2004-01-11
12:03:45 <WalterOS2> This meeting of Warpdoctor is now session.
<WalterOS2> The agenda is at http://www.warpdoctor.org/Agendas/warpdoc_2004-01-11.html
<WalterOS2> I'm going to have you guys take it easy on me today. :-)
<Doug> why so
<Doug> ?
<WalterOS2> A whole bunch of Voice (and a couple of others) have hit me all at the same time.
<WalterOS2> I'm starting to really feel the pressure. :-(
<Doug> tasks you mean?
<Gord> Delegate.
<WalterOS2> VOICE projects I mean.
<WalterOS2> Well, I can't delegate my article, which is one of the big projects. :-)
<Doug> Yeah - delegate. And remember, there is always tomorrow
<Doug> when is your article due?
<WalterOS2> We'll keep this meeting really informal.
<WalterOS2> 15 February--and that's an extension!
<Doug> Do you know what you are going to do it on?
<WalterOS2> I think I'll get everything done.
<WalterOS2> I've started it already.
<WalterOS2> If any of you have done any writing you may know about this.
<WalterOS2> Generally, my articles come pretty easily to me, but occasionally I'll write on one that's like pulling teeth to get done.
<wdl> I do cut/paste to get the agenda, and I get:
<wdl> Error 404
<wdl> The file was not found, even after searching on any extensions to the file name. The file does not exist or is read-protected.
<WalterOS2> This is in the latter category.
<WalterOS2> First, check carefully the spelling.
<Gord> I had that problem until someone pointed me to an extra entry in my HOSTS file.
<WalterOS2> Anyone else having any trouble with it?
<Doug> I Know exactly what you are talking about walter
<KenKrchnr> Bill, try http://www.warpdoctor.org/agendas and pick from the list.
<WalterOS2> You could also try accessing it from voice1.os2voice.org
<WalterOS2> Or not..
<WalterOS2> No, voice1 worked.
<wdl> Ken: Tried what you suggested -- got the exact same error.
<KenKrchnr> Well, you did say he could _try_
<WalterOS2> :-)
<Doug> :)
<KenKrchnr> Bill, have you changed your hosts file?
<Doug> wdl - when you ping www.warpdoctor.org what do you get?
<wdl> Haven't touched it. Should I have??
<WalterOS2> Bill: Do a host www.voice.org and see what you get.
<wdl> ping www.warpdoctor.org
<WalterOS2> hostid www.warpdoctor.org would probably work better. :-)
<wdl> Aarg -- wrong screen...
<wdl> Doug: ping works fine...
<KenKrchnr> When you got the error, what server was reporting?
<WalterOS2> Sorry--use host instead of hostid
<Doug> wdl - do you get back 206.135.240.102 as the address?
<wdl> Ken: Lotus Domino Go Webserver 4.6.2.6
<WalterOS2> Oops.
<KenKrchnr> :-)
<wdl> Doug: I get: 64 bytes from 206.135.240.98: icmp_seq=12. time=230. ms
<Doug> wdl - you are pointed to the test system. The adenda is at the other system
<Doug> It is probably your hosts file.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<Doug> "real" www.warpdoctor.org is 206.135.240.102
<KenKrchnr> It's the hosts file, find the entry for 206.135.240.98 and put a "#" in front of it.
<wdl> Doug: Advice/direction, please?
<KenKrchnr> Hosts should be in your mptn\etc directory
<Doug> edit hosts file - and as Ken says, just put a # in front of the line with 206.135.240.98
<KenKrchnr> Then you'll need to restart your browser.
<WalterOS2> Whoa.
<Doug> wdl - you will probably have to shut down and restart your browser for the new address to work
<WalterOS2> I don't think that's necessary.
<WalterOS2> OK. Browser--yes; system--no
<WalterOS2> I didn't read Ken's entire message. :-(
<Doug> If that doesn't work - you will have to throw the breaker at the electric box
<Doug> just kidding
<WalterOS2> When I see "shut down" I automatically think of shutting down the system or computer.
<Doug> yes - ken was much more succicent. Shutdown and restart are actually redundant, nicht var?
<Doug> hi jep
<WalterOS2> I set a record yesterday: My up-time on my main computer (The one I do nearly everything on) was over 7 days. Then the only reason I had to shut it down was because I had install an app that had modified config.sys :-(
<WalterOS2> Hello Jan
<wdl> All: OK - I got the agenda. When will the various connection issues settle down?
<KenKrchnr> I think that's on the agenda :-)
<WalterOS2> Well, you should only have the 206.125.240.98 line in during these meetings.
<jep> Hi all!
<Doug> no - I need it more often than that, please.
<WalterOS2> After that for the most part, you should remove it or comment it out.
<WalterOS2> Doug: I know you do, but I was talking to Bill. :-)
<WalterOS2> :-)
<wdl> Ken: Got it. Didn't yet read it.
<WalterOS2> Has everyone read the agenda?
<Gord> Yes.
<wdl> Yes.
<Doug> jawohl
<KenKrchnr> Me too
<WalterOS2> OK, let's start on it.
<WalterOS2> A. Old Business
<WalterOS2> Item A1: Redbooks.
<WalterOS2> Who was going to download them besides me?
<WalterOS2> My memory is going, going,...
<KenKrchnr> NielsJ had volunteered.
<WalterOS2> What directory had we allocated for them?
<KenKrchnr> ftp.warpdoctor.org/files/redbooks
<wdl> WalterOS2: I've got 23 files worth of Redbook-xxx.
<wdl> Awk! Ten files, actually. The rest are my notes *about* them.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<WalterOS2> I just checked the directory on www.warpdoctor.org on VOICE2 and couldn't find them.
<KenKrchnr> The files? None have been uploaded.
<WalterOS2> OK, that's what I wanted to know.
<WalterOS2> Niel emailed me that he was going to do it, sometime around the Jan 1 weekend, but I never got a confirmation.
<WalterOS2> Who here has broadband access?
<WalterOS2> I'll email Niel and see if it did it.
<wdl> My redbook holdings are 41MB, and I *don't* have broadband. ;-(
<KenKrchnr> I figured I'd wait 'til mid month or so then just set up a script and let voice2 d/l them directly.
<WalterOS2> Ken: OK, that'll work too. :-)
<WalterOS2> Ken: thanks!
<WalterOS2> I'll let you know if I get a response from Niels before then.
<WalterOS2> It seems like I have messages out to half the OS/2 community that I haven't gotten responses to. :-(
<wdl> A surly crew... ;-)
<KenKrchnr> I guess you haven't sent to the other half :-)
<WalterOS2> :-)
<WalterOS2> Let's move on it A2:Xpager.
<WalterOS2> I have been working on it, but this is in the non-responsive email category. :-(
<Gord> What is XPager?
<WalterOS2> Roderick also hasn't told me of anyone in Netlabs to contact.
<KenKrchnr> bbi5
<WalterOS2> Gord: Doug--why don't you explain it?
<Doug> xPager is an optional feature of xWorkplace shell
<Doug> it allows for multiple virtual desktops to be running at the same time.
<Gord> Thx.
<WalterOS2> Doug: xPager isn't optional in the "lite" version of xWorkplace that comes with eCS 1.1
<Doug> Our plug-in, and other applications, appear to have a conflict with xPager, that keeps certain features of xpager from working, when our plug-in is running
<Doug> You can turn it off, can't you?
<jep> WalterOS2: I've asked Bart about it 4 you!
<WalterOS2> Not just our plug-in but certain other apps as well.
<WalterOS2> jep: Thanks!
<WalterOS2> What did he say?
<jep> I mentioned (after the last meeting) that you had 2 weeks to define your request...
<jep> ...the fix or feature that you wanted.
<jep> He said anyway that the debug build of the "new" realease didn't suffer from the problem on his machine.
<Doug> oooo - that appears to be good news
<WalterOS2> I've sent him everything he asked for a long time ago.
<jep> Btw, do you want me to "say" anything to him? His there now...
<WalterOS2> There was a delay on the test program, because Doug ran into problems while writing it.
<jep> He's
<WalterOS2> You could ask him these questions:
<WalterOS2> 1. Has he tested Doug's test app that I emailed him?
<Doug> any chance that we could look at or test the debug version of the new release?
<WalterOS2> 2. When will his new release be available?
<WalterOS2> Doug: That too.
<Doug> Jen - does Bart also handle xCenter?
<WalterOS2> Fixing that problem will likely fix Homepage Publisher's problem with XPager.
<Doug> (we hope!)
<WalterOS2> Several OS/2-eCS types (including me) use that program, and the conflict is a MAJOR pain.
<WalterOS2> Right.
<WalterOS2> Whenever I write an article, I have to turn xPager off. :-(
<Doug> jep - would you also tell Bart thanks for looking at this.
<jep> He'd like to join this chat (I guess).
<Doug> great!
<WalterOS2> Great! What does he need to knwo.
<WalterOS2> know.
<WalterOS2> To join, I mean.
<Simpson_2> hi kids
* Simpson_2 is Bart van Leeuwen
<Doug> love your handle Bart!
<Simpson_2> its a long story
<Doug> Bart - first, thanks for looking at our xPager problem.
<WalterOS2> Bart: Thanks so much for coming! :-)
<WalterOS2> Bart: You should know that the problem is not unique to our plugin.
<WalterOS2> It also affects Homepage Publisher.
<WalterOS2> Maybe others too,
<Simpson_2> well you should no I had no luck so far reproducing it :)
<WalterOS2> Which version of xPager?
<Simpson_2> hmmm own build xwp 1.01
<Simpson_2> but I havent touched xpager, so it should not differ
<Doug> anyway we could try out that version?
<Simpson_2> Doug: its not different..
<Simpson_2> I couldn'T reproduce the problem with mainstram xwp1.01 with the backagain stuff either
<Doug> hummmm
<Doug> Are you running ecs?
<Simpson_2> among others yes
* Simpson_2 is also new product manger of ecomstation
<Doug> Are most of your test systems configured the same - meaning the same mix of applications?
<WalterOS2> Bart: Congrats!
<Simpson_2> Doug: in general not, I intend not to
<Doug> I am wondering if maybe there is some conflict between xPager, the plugin, and stuff I have loaded on my machine.
<Simpson_2> well the thing is I didn'T manage to make the plugin work on my system
<jep> Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the problem you're talking about related to that one can't switch to another virtual desktop?
<Doug> yes
<jep> Bart: DrDialog and Embellish then?
<Simpson_2> but if you have a rather straight forward seperate exe that would be nice
<Simpson_2> emb doesn't give me trouble consistantly
<Simpson_2> sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt
<jep> Have you all seen that you can switch desktop if you don't have focus on the mle?
<WalterOS2> Yes.
<Simpson_2> mle ?
<jep> Mle = Multi Line Input Field
<Doug> is that the problem?
<jep> :-)
<Simpson_2> yeah I know what a MLE is, but can't relate to the xpager problem
<WalterOS2> Bart: Now, I'm not sure my previous answer was correct.
<WalterOS2> :-(
<WalterOS2> I guess I don't understand the question. :-)
<jep> Or is it the notebook?
<Doug> Our problem appears to happen when we switch the parent for a window from the desktop to some other window
<Simpson_2> Doug: I've seen the explanation, I'm trying to figure out if what you do and how you do it, isn't a dirty trick
<Doug> oh - it probably is a dirty trick. But it is the only thing we can think of to make something like this work
<Simpson_2> then the next question should be, can we make it clean trick ?
<Simpson_2> because I fear if you do a dirty trick its kinda hard for me to work around that
<Doug> I am all ears.
<Doug> If it is dirty, or rather, unusual, it is in the fact that we are switching the parent of a window that is running in a separate session.
<Doug> Other than that, I would think it is pretty normal.
<Doug> mozilla in session a, DrDialog in session B with parent = desktop.
<Doug> We switch DrDialog main window parent from desktop to a mozilla window
<Doug> which is probably unusual, but not prohibited by PM
<Simpson_2> hmmm
<Simpson_2> I'm thinking on this one :)
<Doug> Do you also handle xCenter?
<Simpson_2> I try to cover all
<Simpson_2> ;)
<Doug> since you are here..... I think I remember that we have a small problem with xCenter also.
<Simpson_2> shoot
<Simpson_2> I did do some fixing there though
<Doug> We start one or more apps in separate sessions, and remove the listing for the apps in the window switch list.
<Doug> But (if I remember corrrectly) the application(s) still appear as running applications in xCenter.
<Doug> Is there an xCenter api that I can call to "hide" a running application from appearing in xCenter?
<Doug> Walter - could you send a copy of HomePage publisher to Bart? Maybe that would be something he could work with easier than the plug-in.
<Simpson_2> do you have the source off homepage publisher ?
<Doug> I do not.
<Simpson_2> well not specificaly you, but is it around ?
<Simpson_2> iow is the author willing to fix this ?
<Doug> I am going to test warpin and see if I get it to do the same thing
<WalterOS2> I doubt it, because it is a commercial program. :-(
<WalterOS2> I could ask the author of HPP, but he's not very responsive to support for HPP: I guess he thinks it's too old.
<Simpson_2> because I'm only really into this with stuff which is supported and where I can get a clue what might go wrong..
<Simpson_2> i do have 1 idea with the mozilla plugin though, it might be process related, but I'm not really sure, although I see no reason why it shouldn't switch though
<Doug> ok - while the window parent switching causes the problem to appear when using DrDialog,
<Doug> I just tested the same thing with WarpIN, and it does NOT cause xPager to stop the switching from desktop to desktop
<Doug> So it must be something in DrDialog, or some combination of DrDialog and what we are doing.
<Doug> I also saw the same problem when using VX-Rexx.
<Doug> oh - wait! I think I have it.
<jep> Doug: Have you tried the MLE thing when using DrDialog then?
<Doug> You mean not having a MLE in DrDialog and seeing if that is the problem?
<jep> No
<Doug> I don't understand then
<jep> create on app, code something and try to switch away to another dt
<jep> click on a tab to switch focus from it, try to switch dt, voilá it works!
<Simpson_2> drdialog is closed source as well isn't it ?
<Doug> you mean switch focus away from an MLE currently displayed in DrDialog, before trying to switch dt in xpager?
<jep> :-) You got it!
<Doug> The application we display doesn't have a MLE visible when the problem happens.
<Doug> However, you may have a point.
<jep> Yes, but DrDialog do have the problem...
<Doug> because we do hook onto the focus event provided by DrDialog
<jep> Doug: Did you see/try it?
<Doug> meaning - I have Rexx code in the FOCUS event tab provided by DrDialog.
<Doug> let me try and find an DrDialog application that causes the problem.
<jep> No, Write a new function, anything
<jep> will do.
<jep> try dt. Nothing
<jep> click on one tab so you'll only see the functions or controls in your app displayed as list
<Doug> ok - with a simple DrDailog app - just one mle and one button - xPager works fine.
<jep> Nonono
<jep> it's drdialog itself that's the problem
<Doug> well - that is the answer that I am leaning towards. But I have also seen the same problem with VX-Rexx.
<Doug> So maybe - it is only a problem that appears in applications that are no longer supported.
<Simpson_2> the thing is I need a 100% sure of reproducing it..
<Simpson_2> I've seen it with emb
<WalterOS2> FWIW, I started HPP, and tested it before I opened any dialogues. XPager was locked immediately--I couldn't change DT's.
<Simpson_2> and can you reproduce that 10x without exception ?
<WalterOS2> Well, HPP fails every single time, if that's a help.
<WalterOS2> If you're talking to me, the answer is yes.
<Simpson_2> okay, although I can't look into the app its at least consistant
<WalterOS2> And it's a simple .EXE program (with a bunch of DLL's).
<WalterOS2> I'll contact the author and ask him to email you.
<WalterOS2> Could you give me your email address, please?
<WalterOS2> If you prefer to email me, my email address is walter.os2NOT@THISrogers.com
<wdl> Yes, Walter - it will be exponged.
<WalterOS2> wdl: Thanks!
<wdl> "exponged" = "Expunged"
<WalterOS2> :-)
<Doug> I like xsponged
<WalterOS2> gg
<wdl> Well, it means something different, not so? ;-)
<Simpson_2> okay preview gives troubles as well
<WalterOS2> That's nice to hear.
<WalterOS2> That it's consistent, I mean.
<Simpson_2> okay I will install it on the laptop and will look at it while I'm at work this week ;)
<WalterOS2> Thank's a lot.
<WalterOS2> er..Thanks
<Simpson_2> now just pray I have some quiet shifts ;)
<WalterOS2> :-)
<WalterOS2> What is your job?
<Simpson_2> professional firefighter in amsterdam holland
<WalterOS2> Really! That's interesting.
<WalterOS2> Is there anything else you would like us to do?
<Simpson_2> hmmm
<wdl> Huh! I've a niece in Amsterdam.
<Simpson_2> I give you like 2 minutes to tell me some must haves in ecs and I can comment on that :)
<Simpson_2> wdl: really where exactly ?
<wdl> Bart: She works at Saturn.
<Simpson_2> wdl: Saturn ?
<wdl> Bart: Something to do with Customer Relations, I think.
<wdl> Bart: a computer-something-or-other firm.
<Doug> not the planet?
<WalterOS2> Bart: Improved hardware detection during installation.
<wdl> Nope!
<WalterOS2> Bart: Also, the installation program is incredibly sensitive to the speed the CDR was recorded at.
<Doug> Not the automobil maker?
<WalterOS2> An improvement in that would be very nice.
<WalterOS2> I have wasted more time than you can imagine reburning CD's at a slower speed.
<Simpson_2> wdl: how cute, that office is straight acros the street from our maintenance shop and warehouse ;)
<Simpson_2> wdl: and in my stations service area ;)
<Doug> Bart - could you get printing to work in ODIN?
<Simpson_2> WalterOS2: the CDR problem is not OS/2 eCS specific, I had the same problem with Redhat
<Simpson_2> WalterOS2: its also largly related to the quality of the CDRs
<Simpson_2> Doug: thats a innotek reserved feature
<wdl> Bart: Her name's Heather Loughman... Expatriate American.
<Doug> is there some way we can pay innotek to get that available?
<Simpson_2> Doug: I think money will do the trick ;)
<Doug> perhaps an optional package for ecs
<Simpson_2> Doug: what app do you need it for ?
<Doug> FrameMaker v 5.5
<Simpson_2> wdl: ah she is on the web site with her name ;)
<Doug> it doesn't recognize that any printer is installed - so it doesn't know what fonts to use
<Simpson_2> Doug: thats really the only problem ?
<Doug> there are a couple of minor dialog box issues, but I can live with those.
<Simpson_2> Doug: try to contact them
<Doug> I understand that innotek spent time/money to develop those features and I don't blame them for wanting money.
<WalterOS2> Osuman Bashira has written a very nice DNS client in Java that works very well under OS/2.
<Doug> And I don't mind paying for the feature. But I don't think my single payment would be emough.
<Simpson_2> so no one else has feature request for ecomstation ?
<Simpson_2> WalterOS2: gime a link
<WalterOS2> It should--I helped him write the OS/2 version.
<WalterOS2> www.bashiro.com/soft/
<wdl> Bart: Yes, she is.
<Simpson_2> Doug: the new innotek kit for openoffice supports printing, so there should be a way to link framemaker in there I think
<Doug> I will send a letter to innotek and see what they say.
<Doug> Bart - thanks again for looking into this xPager problem.
<Simpson_2> WalterOS2: okay, looks nice, I'll keep it in mind
<Simpson_2> what do you people say about samba ?
<WalterOS2> I know this isn't an OS/2-eCS problem, but it would be a real help to get Acrobat 4.x to print on all systems.
<WalterOS2> Bart: Thanks.
<WalterOS2> Never used Samba.
<Simpson_2> WalterOS2: the innotek acrobat you mean ?
<WalterOS2> Yes. Sorry, I should have said that.
<Gord> Haven't used Samba either.
<Doug> I had linux running at one time, but when I switched hardware around it stopped running, and I have never had enough time or interest to get it back up and running.
<WalterOS2> The firewall in my router has always been more than adequate. :-)
<Simpson_2> WalterOS2: contact innotek about that
<WalterOS2> I have--as have a bunch of others on their forum.
<WalterOS2> They seems to have given up on the problem.
<WalterOS2> :-(
<Simpson_2> I've heard it, but never experienced it..
<Simpson_2> WalterOS2: can't do anything about that btw
<WalterOS2> I figured.
<WalterOS2> Thought I'd mention it anyway. :-)
<WalterOS2> Let's adjourn the Warpdoctor meeting, just for the sake of the logs.
<WalterOS2> Doesn't mean we can't keep talking, though. :-)
<Simpson_2> k
<Doug> move to adjourn
<WalterOS2> Thks.
<WalterOS2> All in favour of adournment, please type Aye.
<Doug> aye
<Simpson_2> ?
<wdl> Aye
<Gord> aye
<KenKrchnr> Aye
14:29:09 <WalterOS2> The motion is carried. Meeting adjourned.