WarpDoctor - General Meeting for 2003-12-14
15:22:27 <WalterOS2> This meeting of Warpdoctor is now in session.
<WalterOS2> I gather "KenLogng" is Ken is recording this in absentia. :-)
<WalterOS2> I'm recording it as well.
<WalterOS2> Item A1a: Status of email server.
<WalterOS2> Does anyone know if the Mail has been moved to VOICE2?
<WalterOS2> Or is it still on VOICE1?
<MADodel> I haven't heard anything. Is Ken back from his vacation?
<MADodel> He moved it back to VOICE1 because he was going away for the week.
<WalterOS2> I'm only guessing, but I think if he were back, he wouldn't be logging "in absentia". :-)
<MADodel> Or he's out. Hopefully the current snow storm isn't delaying his return.
<WalterOS2> How's is it where you are, Mark?
<MADodel> We had about 5-6 inches, but its hail now. Supposed to be going NorthEast now.
<WalterOS2> Not Nice!
<WalterOS2> It's cloudy here, and snowing lightly. Nothing too serious.
<WalterOS2> And to think I am actually north of you!
<WalterOS2> Moving on:
<MADodel> This one came from the South and is headed NE.
<WalterOS2> Fortunately, MOST of the time the winter storms miss us and dump on Quebec and the Maritimes--especially the Maritimes!
<WalterOS2> We may get the edge of the storm.
<WalterOS2> I'm located in area between 3 Great Lakes, and that offers considerable protection. :-)
<WalterOS2> Until they freeze over, anyway. :-)
<WalterOS2> Once again--moving on:
<WalterOS2> A1b: Doug is Warpdoctor still on VOICE1?
<WalterOS2> i.e. Doug: Is.....
<WalterOS2> Does this mean VOICE1 is back up?
<WalterOS2> Sorry, I mean VOICE2.
<Doug> My connection went away
<Doug> So I probably missed a bit
<WalterOS2> Your and everyone elses except mine. :-)
<WalterOS2> Didn't miss a thing. :-)
<Doug> maybe its the snow
<MADodel> You have snow too?
<Doug> snowed last monday - clear today but there is some snow on the ground still
<WalterOS2> Doug: which IRC server were/are you connected to?
<Doug> I am connected to Andrew's in California
<Doug> I couldn't connect to Rat's
<WalterOS2> Then it was probably his that went down.
<WalterOS2> The error msgs were listing both his and the one on VOICE2.
<WalterOS2> However os2voice.org was still up.
<Doug> is voice1 still running?
<WalterOS2> Apparently.
<WalterOS2> I am able to connected to www.warpdoctor.org at any rate.
<Doug> what is the ip for voice2?
<Doug> never mind - I see it here.
<Doug> isn't www.warpdoctor.org currently pointing to voice2?
<WalterOS2> I was about to ask you that when the "lights" went out. :-)
<Doug> I have 206.135.240.102 in my HOSTS file as VOICE2
<Doug> I don't have the original IP for voice1
<WalterOS2> Where is your development version of WD?
<Doug> currently I am trying to figure out how to pass a string from WARPIN.EXE to WPIRTL.DLL
<Doug> which is the backend or engine of WarpIn that does the actual install.
<Doug> When I figure that out, I will send off the email to you with the details and files needed to forward to Ulrich, or whoever
<Doug> Then I have to finish the DDE to EPM part, and add 3 screens
<Doug> plus some drag and drop support for creating shadows. Then we are done!
<WalterOS2> I just sent an email off to secretaryNOT@THISos2voice.org. We'll see if it gets through. That should tell us if VOICE1 is up.
<WalterOS2> Thanks, Doug.
<Doug> I take it Ken is still out of town?
<WalterOS2> I believe so.
<Doug> Do we have lots of traffic on WarpDoctor currently?
<WalterOS2> How do I find out?
<Doug> beats me. Maybe rat would know.
<WalterOS2> I don't think he's around in person.
<WalterOS2> Hi Hoss!
<Doug> I ask because I am wondering when we can or should switch the www.warpdoctor.org to voice3
<WalterOS2> Let me get this straight. Are you currently using VOICE3, and if so, for what?
<WalterOS2> I thought it was a development site for the new WD.
<Doug> voice3 is where the "development" version of warpdoctor resides.
<MADodel> Have to go salt the driveway so my wife can come home. BBIAB
<WalterOS2> Bye.
<WalterOS2> Doug: Are you ready to switch WD over?
<Doug> yes - at some point we either move warpdoctor stuff from voice3 to voice2, or we repoint www.warpdoctor.org to voice3
<WalterOS2> What about the stuff you mentioned a few minutes ago?
<WalterOS2> WarpIN and adding screens, etc.
<Doug> If no one is accessing warpdoctor currently, except to get agendas, then we could move over at any time
<Doug> 'cause we could put the agendas on the new warpdoctor
<WalterOS2> That makes sense.
<Doug> that is why I was asking how many people currently access the current warpdoctor
<Doug> It may be 2-3 weeks before we are ready to go "public"
<Doug> but we could switch the ip over before that
<WalterOS2> Ken was sending me usage stats for awhile, but I haven't seen any recently. Not sure if they included WD, though.
<Doug> I'll email him this week and ask him what he thinks about this.
<WalterOS2> Well, Ken isn't here today, and we're going to take a couple of weeks off from meetings.
<Doug> when is our next meeting?
<WalterOS2> How about sometime beween the 4th and 11th of January?
<WalterOS2> Our next meeting is next week.
<WalterOS2> The next meeting after that will be the 11th of January.
<Doug> so next sunday, and then Jan 11, 2004?
<WalterOS2> Or we could switch during or after the 11th of January. I'm easy.
<WalterOS2> Right. I'd like to give everyone (including myself :-) a bit of a break.
<Doug> ok by me
<WalterOS2> Christmas tends a busy time with social events.
<Doug> I have been very busy this week on social stuff
<WalterOS2> Your family getting to early, are they?
<WalterOS2> getting to you...
<Doug> lots of stuff at school, and a family birthday
<WalterOS2> Yeah, my wife's going nuts at school with staff get-togethers, Christmas concerts, etc.
<WalterOS2> She teaches Kindergarten.
<Doug> that is a great age
<WalterOS2> She likes it. :-)
<WalterOS2> Anyway, how does the time frame suit you?
<Doug> sounds good
<WalterOS2> OK.
<WalterOS2> I've tried contacting someone over at Netlabs, but haven't gotten a response (yet). :-(
<Doug> I found a "user" and "developer" group on Yahoo - I see if I can find anything out through them
<WalterOS2> Thanks. :-)
<WalterOS2> Well, you've already taken care of A2 and A3.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<WalterOS2> Moving right along. :-)
<WalterOS2> B: New Business:
<MADodel> I'm back, Hopefully my wife can get up the driveway now.
<WalterOS2> You have a steep one?
<MADodel> long steep and it curves.
<WalterOS2> Ouch! I guess it looks nice in the summer, though.
<WalterOS2> OK, we were just going to start New Business.
<WalterOS2> TIPS section
<WalterOS2> This came out of my head.
<WalterOS2> Often when I'm in research mode, I'll learn something important,
<WalterOS2> and I'd like to pass it on, and I'm never quite sure how to do it.
<WalterOS2> Sending to editorNOT@THISos2voice.org is one possibility.
<MADodel> Actually send tips to tipsNOT@THISos2voice.org
<WalterOS2> However, I always feel that items in there get lost within a month
<WalterOS2> or two after publication.
<WalterOS2> Then I thought, wouldn't it be great if there were a form in WD where I could enter the information,
<WalterOS2> and it would actually go into a database, so that the tips would remain sorted by topic?
<Doug> are these tips on how to install software, or how to operate software, or how to do something in OS/2 WPS?
<JonOS2> re
<WalterOS2> Ideally, if we can find the talent, I'd like to enter the existing VNL tips into this database as well.
<MADodel> categorizing them might be tough
<WalterOS2> They vary. For example, I just found out a very little known fact about networking with NETBIOS.
<WalterOS2> That is what was causing my system backups to crash.
<JonOS2> "According to JB, this s-s project has the potential to generate mega-bucks"
<WalterOS2> And I've never seen it documented anyware except in two obscure locations.
<JonOS2> I must say I'm **very** disappointed in you all
<Doug> I agree completely walter.
<JonOS2> I have NEVER said nor even pointed to such rubbish
<WalterOS2> I'm not thinking about major "how-to's" because that's better stored with the software itself.
<WalterOS2> I think, anyway.
<MADodel> What is an "s-s project"? and how does it relate to Warp Doctor?
<Doug> and who is jb?
<JonOS2> jb?
<JonOS2> that happens to be me, and I'm really very angry with the person who says these lies about me and my team!
<Doug> Jonos2 - start at the beginning. I have no idea what you are talking about.
<WalterOS2> The meeting has now been hijacked!
<JonOS2> I refer to http://www.warpdoctor.org/irclogs/2003/11-16-03.log.html
<JonOS2> if you want to call me a hijacker, go ahead
<Doug> ok - I see the quote. That upsets you?
<JonOS2> yes of course
<Doug> why?
<JonOS2> I'm furious about it! I'm referred to as if I am a person who sets up the entire project just for $$!
<Doug> I didn't get the impression - but I was in both meetings, so maybe I had an advantage
<Doug> Plus - I don't think there is anything wrong with making money on OS/2 projects
<JonOS2> that's not the point, I have been referred to as some kind of a crook
<JonOS2> well... let me give you some insights in my so-called financial project:
<JonOS2> the past year, os2warp.be has cost me 526 EUR just for web hosting
<JonOS2> + more than 3500 EUR for hardware testing
<JonOS2> + NO financial sponsoring or whatsoever, I paid everything ==> you call this a financial project?!
<Doug> JonOS2 - I appologize if anything said gave the impression that you were are crook. I know that I never meant that.
<Doug> And I think we all realize that it takes money to be able to run any kind of service. We wouldn't be able to have our site without donations and the financial support of some members like Ken
<JonOS2> Doug: it's not you I'm angry with, but as usual the person who should apologize just keeps silent
<Doug> So I don't see anything wrong, and I don't think anyone else does either, with getting any kind of financial benefit, or just break even
<JonOS2> WalterOS2: what have u got to say, it was YOU who typed that rubbish :p
<WalterOS2> Here's what you did say, as taken directly from our logs:
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> just minor update than the old db? the one at warpdoctor.org/hcl or something similar
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> Doug: fact is that I've already contacted some companies, and we soon have agreement for hardware tests
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> and not just small companies, I mean the really huge ones, market leaders like intel
<WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> Hello Kris and Jappe
<WalterOS2> <Doug> you mean an agreement where they pay you to test hardware for them?
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> Doug: I already stressed it: os2warp.be IS and WILL REMAIN independent from any co
<WalterOS2> at all! we just have agreements that are nearly concluded by contract that would really allow us to make HUGE progresses to the hw db
<JonOS2> just what I said: NOWHERE SOMETHING ABOUT MONEY!
<WalterOS2> Here's what was said as taken directly from our logs:
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> just minor update than the old db? the one at warpdoctor.org/hcl or something similar
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> Doug: fact is that I've already contacted some companies, and we soon have agreement for hardware tests
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> and not just small companies, I mean the really huge ones, market leaders like intel
<WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> Hello Kris and Jappe
<WalterOS2> <Doug> you mean an agreement where they pay you to test hardware for them?
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> Doug: I already stressed it: os2warp.be IS and WILL REMAIN independent from any co
<WalterOS2> at all! we just have agreements that are nearly concluded by contract that would really allow us to make HUGE progresses to the hw db
<WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> JonOS2: Go to http://206.135.240.98/ and you'll get a good idea of what's in development now, i.e. "Phase 2"
<WalterOS2> <Doug> ok - I don't mean to pry. I am just trying to make sure that we don't step on any toes
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> Doug: no problemo!
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> Doug: though I should mention that we're most probably going to accept some funds from company that I can't tell for
<WalterOS2> section about win32prn project
<WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> win32prn?
<WalterOS2> <Doug> making windows printer drivers work in OS/2
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> project has some secret roots, can't tell more about that
<WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> thx
<WalterOS2> <Doug> or rather, drivers for the type of printers called windows printers.
<WalterOS2> <Doug> Jonas - that is excellent news. The more drivers/hardware that works with OS/2 the better.
<WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> You mean "host-based" printers?
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> in any way, we're going to spend a LOT of money to buying printers
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> now, about t
<WalterOS2> e list...
<WalterOS2> <Doug> walter - I believe so.
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> the thing is that we are planning the very same thing you're doing
<WalterOS2> <Doug> Yes - if you are going to do the actually testing, then that is a HUGH project - both time and money
<WalterOS2> <Doug> yes and no.
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> however, we're determined to keep the db 100% accurate adn professional
<JonOS2> nowhere something about megabugs!
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> because the automated db is mainly for a company (we do NOT get money for it however)
<WalterOS2> <Doug> We are not planning on doing the testing ourselves, but on relying on the user
<WalterOS2> ty to provide input on what workd
<WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> places like Netlabs.
<WalterOS2> <Doug> so in that area, we are planning to the the same things
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> Doug: not really, we test everything ourselves, or rely upon companies we have partnered with
<WalterOS2> <Doug> I was thinking of the data you have from user input forms on your site.
<WalterOS2> <Doug> sounds like you are going to differentate the data - user input from tested by you
<WalterOS2> <JonOS2> btw, if you're going to rely on user feedback, you're going to be very, very disappointed, O
<WalterOS2> ple are selfish, and they don't report a lot
<WalterOS2> <KenKrchnr> Well, I don't think OS/2 users are very different from other OS users in that respect.
<WalterOS2> <Doug> you probably have more experience in this than we do, but we are still hopeful
<WalterOS2> bugs or bucks?
<JonOS2> WalterOS2: we get it!
<JonOS2> both, it's even
<JonOS2> p.s.: I don't want bugs or bucks, I want euros, they value more, but anyway, I don't want to get money by os2warp.be
<WalterOS2> fact is that I've already contacted some companies, and we soon have agreement
<WalterOS2> for hardware tests
<WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> <JonOS2> and not just small companies, I mean the really huge ones, market leaders like intel
<WalterOS2> If I misunderstand what you said, or overstated the situation, I apologize.
<JonOS2> apologie is appreciated
<WalterOS2> But I certainly didn't intend any harm.
* MADodel wishes some companies would make some bucks/euros from new OS/2 projects.
<WalterOS2> hehe
<Doug> JonOS2 - we don't want to fight. We lovers - not fighters
<WalterOS2> Absolutely!
<JonOS2> I don't want to fight neither, I just wanted to make clear thatt I was REALLY angry until two minutes ago ;)
<JonOS2> peeeeace ;)
<Doug> Yeah - if you figure out how to make any bucks/euros, or even bugs, mega or otherwise, from OS/2, we think that is GREAT
<Doug> ok - big group hug
<JonOS2> jep
* MADodel thought m$ had the market cornered on bugs
<WalterOS2> heh
<Doug> my personal opinion here: part of the problem with open source universes, like Linux, is that it is very difficult to sell commercial software in that environment.
<Doug> And the reality is: most people need to eat, and it takes money to do that.
<WalterOS2> Yes, I would imagine so.
<MADodel> Doug: perhaps to endusers, but I think corporations are use to paying large support contracts.
<WalterOS2> That's the reason, I am religious about registering any shareware I own, and not using pirated software.
<MADodel> What I don't get is banks demanding windoze ATMs. Why not Linux if they absolutely have to dump OS/2
<WalterOS2> I figure the people who create the stuff I'm using deserve to paid for their efforts.
<JonOS2> yesterday I walked into my bank and the terminals were down stating: "This program has created some errors and needs to be closed." ;)
<WalterOS2> I mentioned the article about ATM's getting viruses, and now my wife is really nervous about using them.
<MADodel> JonOS2: Yes, unstable and open to viruses. Its a disgrace
<WalterOS2> I told her the best defense against viruses from a personal point of view is to be diligent about checking every receipt against our bank statement.
<Doug> anyway - walter - your tips idea. I agree, and i think the secret will be in creating categories that make sense where those tips can be put
<WalterOS2> Oddly enough, in the last month or two, we've had two cases in our family where bogus charges to charged to our account.
<WalterOS2> Doug: That's sometimes the toughest part.
<WalterOS2> But you're right.
<Doug> sidebar: you know ebay/paypal won't let you purchase more than $2000 without giving them a bank account number
<Doug> $2000 in a life-time, not a single purchase.
<WalterOS2> I can see why.
<Doug> and I get really nervous giving out my bank account information to ANY company, especially an on-line one.
<WalterOS2> Except the bit about "in a life-time" seems a little excessive.
<Doug> If you use a credit card and pay through paypal, which is really your only choice for on-line credit card payments
<Doug> paypal will not allow you to "spend" more than $2000 in your life-time without giving them access to your bank account.
<WalterOS2> My earlier comment about "in a life-time" still applies.
<WalterOS2> Course it's just a opinion.
<WalterOS2> er..a=my
<WalterOS2> :-)
<WalterOS2> I'd just like to touch on B2.
<WalterOS2> This was Mark's idea, and I think it's a good one.
<WalterOS2> Although, I'm *little* concerned about the copyright angle.
<WalterOS2> Any comments?
<Doug> Since most of the redbooks are currently on-line at Ibm's site, our linking to their redbook shouldn't cause any problems
<MADodel> They are freely downloadable. Is there anything on the RedBook site that says they can't be downloaded from anywhere else?
<WalterOS2> Not that I can see.
<MADodel> I don't recall the redbook site requiring any registration either
<WalterOS2> The URL that shows all the RB for OS/2 is http://www-306.ibm.com/software/os/warp/library/redindex.html
<Doug> As a general rule, I think we are going to serve stuff from other sites when possible, even if we have copies of the stuff on our site, in order to minimize the traffic on Ken's connection.
<MADodel> My concern and what sparked my suggestion to Walter was the fear that IBM would trash those redbooks.
<Doug> If the external links go away, then we want to be able to provide the stuff from our own copies.
<MADodel> They removed the PCCO EWS FTP directory recently.
<Doug> I agree completely. There is that danger for the redbooks, just as there is for lots of other stuff.
<MADodel> They are gradually removing all OS/2 content
<Doug> we should get copies of all we can then.
<WalterOS2> Gotta make room for the Linux stuff. :-(
<MADodel> I uploaded all the EWS stuff to the voice server
<MADodel> At least all that I had.
<Doug> Mark - do you have copies of all the OS/2 related redbooks already?
<WalterOS2> Bren: Would you feel up to the task?
<WalterOS2> Bren: I should first ask what kind of Internet connection you have. :-)
<MADodel> Doug: No I only have a few.
<WalterOS2> Maybe, Gord would be willing to do it.
<MADodel> I have one that was never released on WSeB.
<WalterOS2> Anyone know what kind of connection *he* has?
<Doug> I think Gord is on dial-up. At least he used to be.
<WalterOS2> I'll get together with Ken when he gets back, and ask him to create a special, uploadable directory for this.
<WalterOS2> Then I'll send a note out.
<Doug> mark - is there any way of splitting up the downloading
<Doug> so that it can be done by multiple people?
<WalterOS2> Sure: we can just assign different books to each person.
<MADodel> I have no idea. I haven't been to the RedBook site in ages.
<WalterOS2> If you've got a tough problem, don't forget about the RB's.
<WalterOS2> They just might have the answer.
<WalterOS2> Well, that's all I have on my agenda.
<WalterOS2> Anyone have anything else that's quick?
<MADodel> SOme are both HTML an PDF. Would we want both?
<WalterOS2> Might as well.
<Doug> lets just get the pdf.
<WalterOS2> People have differing tastes and equipment.
<Doug> ok
<MADodel> HTML is difficult though as its framed. Someone would have to Slurp it to get all the pages.
<WalterOS2> I'm concerned that some PDF documents are difficult to print.
<Doug> i think most of the PDF documents for OS/2 will be compatible with acrobat v 3, which seems to print ok.
<Doug> And ghostview/ghostscript does a pretty good job printing PDF
<WalterOS2> There's a documented problem regarding some systems being unable to print from Acrobat 4.01b2.
<WalterOS2> Doug: I know.
<WalterOS2> Doug: I found GV/GS a nightmare to setup.
<Doug> I suspect that printing from v 4 will be problematic, because of ODIN.
<WalterOS2> We can probably get by with the PDF documents--as long as they are Acrobat 3.
<WalterOS2> If there are newer documents done in Acrobat 4 or above, then we should get both.
<MADodel> Seems they have zips of the Redbooks at ftp://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks Not sure if these are HTML or what. I'm d/ling one now.
<Doug> Used to be many releases ago. But anymore the gs/gv install seems to go pretty smothly for me.
<WalterOS2> Innotek is working on the problem, but there's no solution yet.
<WalterOS2> Let's close the meeting.
<Doug> move to adjourn
<WalterOS2> All in favour, please type Aye.
<Doug> aye
<MADodel> aye
<WalterOS2> All opposed, please type Nay.
17:22:07 <WalterOS2> Motion is carried. Meeting is adjourned.