WarpDoctor - General Meeting for 2003-12-07
15:13:07 <WalterOS2> This meeting of Warpdoctor is now in session.
<WalterOS2> I believe "KenLogng" is Ken taking the log in absentia. :-)
<WalterOS2> He said he was off to Floria; weather permitting.
<WalterOS2> Make that Florida. :-)
<WalterOS2> I wonder if Rat has/will see him.
<WalterOS2> I wrote the agenda, but I'm confused about it.
<WalterOS2> I don't think A1 belongs on this agenda. I wrote this and the VOICE agenda one right after the other, and there must have been some leakage.
<Gord> I get 404 on the agenda page!!!!
<WalterOS2> Hi Gord. Let me check.
<Doug> I did too until i changed -7.html to -07.html
<WalterOS2> Ahah..shortcuts don't work with browsers. :-)
<Gord> Neither one works for me.
<WalterOS2> http://www.warpdoctor.org/agendas/warpdoc_2003-12-07.html
<WalterOS2> That's what I pulled straight off my browser's location box.
<Rat-Salad> hate to disappoint Ken... but it was pretty chilly here this morning heh
<Doug> your IP for www.warpdoctor.org should be 206.135.240.102
<WarpedeCS> works from here Gord
<WalterOS2> Chilly up here too.
<Gord> OK. Even cut-and-paste makes no difference.
<WalterOS2> Gord: That first "_" is an underscore, not a hyphen.
<Gord> Between c_2 Agreed.
<WalterOS2> Gord: Looks like it's time to upgrade your browser. :-)
<Gord> Will do.
<WalterOS2> Call meeting to order.
<WalterOS2> Make sure someone is taking the log.
<WalterOS2> 1. Old Business
<WalterOS2> 1. Status of conversion to VOICE2
<WalterOS2> 1. Mail switched back to VOICE1
<WalterOS2> 2. Status of other subsystems.
<WalterOS2> 2. Status of Warpdoctor/DB2 Engine?
<WalterOS2> 3. Status of XPager problem.
<WalterOS2> 4. Ready to input test data?
<WalterOS2> 5. Updating HCL.
<WalterOS2> New Business
<WalterOS2> 1. Open Session
<WalterOS2> Now you don't need to upgrade your browser right now, anyway. :-)
<WalterOS2> For some reason, all the alphas get changed to numbers.
<Gord> Thanks!
<WalterOS2> Never have understood that.
<WalterOS2> So let's go to A1 (1.1)
<WalterOS2> Sorry: A2 (1.2)
<WalterOS2> Doug, can you give us an update on Warpdoctor?
<WalterOS2> Hi Bren
<Bren> Hi
<WalterOS2> Bren: You from B.C.?
<Bren> You bet
<Doug> I am finishing up with the WarpIN changes that I will send to ??. (Actually I am hoping I can send them to you walter and you will forward them to whoever is appropriate)
<WalterOS2> "shawcable" sort of gave it away. My brother-in-law in Burnaby uses it as well.
<WalterOS2> Using Rogers here.
<Doug> Then I will finish the plug-in to EPM DDE stuff, then the last few screens, shadows, and we are done
<Bren> Biggest ISP (70%) in Victoria
<WalterOS2> Doug: What changes to WarpIn?
<WalterOS2> Bren: My sister lives in Victoria.
<WalterOS2> Bren: I'm in Kitcher.
<WalterOS2> er..Kitchener.
<Doug> I am proposing some realtively simple changes to WarpIN to allow it to integrate with the WarpDoctor site:
<Doug> 1) one click download and install
<Doug> 2) determine if the user has warpIn and if it is the current version
<Doug> I have compiled the changed into WarpIn in order to test it before I send the proposed changes to ??
<Doug> I sent something out about that last week, I think.
<Doug> or rather - I think I sent something out about that last week.
<WalterOS2> I don't remember it, but last week was crazy, anyway.
<Doug> I can send it to you, if you want.
<WalterOS2> WarpIn is a Netlabs project. Anyone know what their heierarchy (sp?) for submitting changes/developers is?
<Doug> I think the very top is Ulrich, same as xWorkplace and xPager
<WalterOS2> But he's not doing it anymore, and Bart told me anyone can make changes to XPager as long as they have the time and resources.
<WalterOS2> I assume the same thing would be true of WarpIn.
<WalterOS2> I just remember the main tool.
<Doug> yeah - but somebody has to approve and then put the changed version on the Netlabs server.
<WalterOS2> XTRACKER
<WalterOS2> Since you're the developer, you should open an account on xtracker at http://xtracker.netlabs.org/ .
<Doug> never heard of it, but I will look into it.
<WalterOS2> I'll look into the political thing a little more for you, if you like.
<Doug> please - that would save me some time.
<WalterOS2> Works like bugzilla for Mozilla, but it's easier to use.
<WalterOS2> I registered the XPager bug on there.
<WalterOS2> Once a bug is registered, a developer has to be assigned to the bug, and then he can work on it.
<WalterOS2> I know that with the similar tool for ecomstation, anyone can assign himself to work on a problem.
<WalterOS2> I'm not sure if the same with Netlabs or not, but I'll try to find out.
<Doug> I've got CVS - I have downloaded the code and made the changes and compiled them into a new version of product. I just can't check the changes back into CVS.
<Doug> That has to be done by someone with "write" authority - and they undoubtedly would want to look at the source changes first
<WalterOS2> Probably. :-)
<WalterOS2> I don't know who the big cheese is.
<Doug> I just figured the change request would have more oomph if it came from you.
<WalterOS2> There's a lot of information at http://xtracker.netlabs.org/help.html#intro .
<WalterOS2> Sure, I can make the initial contact.
<WalterOS2> Send me a summary of what the changes do, and your changes, and I'll forward them to the right person.
<WalterOS2> send=email :-)
<Doug> will do
<WalterOS2> Anyone else have any comments on this?
<WalterOS2> Doug, have you heard anything about xPager from Brad?
<WalterOS2> or is it Bart?
<Doug> not a thing.
<Doug> from either
<WalterOS2> That's unfortunate.
<WalterOS2> Any possibility of either fixing it yourself or coming up with a workaround in the plugin?
<WalterOS2> I'd fix it if I knew anything about programming. :-)
<Doug> that is always (theoritically) possible.
<Doug> I will look into that after WD release if you don't hear back by then
<Doug> if we don't hear back by then
<WalterOS2> which one?
<Doug> probably xPager - I suspect the problem is in there, since it occurs in more than just the plug-in
<WalterOS2> That would theoretically cure the problem for Homepage Publisher, which would be great. Quite a few people, including me, use that program.
<WalterOS2> Mark, for example, uses it with the VNL.
<WalterOS2> I know Gord and Bill are just itching to do some testing. <g>
<WalterOS2> When you think we'll ready to test the forms with some dummy data?
<Doug> I am hoping by christmas, or very soon thereafter
<WalterOS2> Super!
<WalterOS2> BTW, like last year, I think we'll take a two-week break from WD meetings.
<WalterOS2> Gord, are you still here?
<Gord> Yes
<WalterOS2> Would there be an advantage to start updating the HCL before the WD release?
<WalterOS2> Or is Doug planning on doing all the updates through the DB engine?
<Gord> Are you asking me?
<WalterOS2> Both you and Doug.
<Doug> There is no point in updating the existing HCL (HTML based stuff) since that will all be replaced by what is in the database.
<WalterOS2> I'd ask Bill too but he's away.
<WalterOS2> OK, that's what I wanted to know.
<Doug> Gord and Bill updating the HCL area of the site in the database will help us debug the site
<WalterOS2> Is the stuff that there now, going to be have to re-entered?
<Doug> yes - one way or the other
<WalterOS2> Part of the debug process--right?
<Doug> Ideally yes. I will try and come up with something where we can just drag the existing HTML file from VOICE3 to an entry screen, to do the majority of the entry
<Doug> but someone will still have to edit some before hitting the magical SAVE button
<WalterOS2> Are you planning on adding a lot of new stuff into the HCL as part of the debug?
<Gord> Let me know by email what is needed.
<WalterOS2> Thanks, Gord!
<Doug> I can try to explain here - go to http://206.135.240.98/drivers.gif
<Doug> What we have now as HCL - will actually be in two parts inthe new site: DRIVERS and HCL
<Gord> OK, I'm there.
<Doug> The DRIVERS part will contain all the drivers for a particular piece of hardware, MATROX in the screen shot at drivers.gif
<Gord> I see that.
<Doug> The HCL entry will describe how to install, and what drivers are available, for a particular piece of hardware.
<Doug> The DRIVERS.GIF shows a screen shot of the DRIVERS screen.
<Doug> It shows a number of drivers available from MATROX for various Matrox boards - like the millenium, etc.
<Doug> The HCL page for the Matrox Millenium on the other hand, needs to list all the drivers, but different manufacturers, available to make that board work with OS/2
<Gord> OK
<Doug> For the Matrox Millenium you can use Matrox drivers, display doctor, Snapp graphics, or the GRADD drivers provided in later versions of OS/2
<Doug> Since a single piece of hardware can work with mulitple drivers from different makers (sound cards are another example)
<Doug> I thought it was necessary to split DRIVERS apart from the description of how to get a particular piece of hardware to work
<Doug> Does that make sense?
<Gord> Yes
<Doug> The HCL screen will look VERY similar to the DRIVERS screen, except instead of having a URL list, there will be a DRIVERS list.
<Doug> The items in the DRIVERS list will be references to entries in the DRIVERS section of the site.
<Doug> You will put an entry in the DRIVERS list by dragging it from a DRIVERS folder and dropping it on the list.
<Doug> Or I will provide an ADD button that allows a user to add a new driver and make a reference to it at the same time.
<Gord> That sounds good.
<WalterOS2> Doug: May I suggest a (perhaps optional) *large* area for "special instructions" or "Configuration"
<Doug> If you look at the DRIVERS screen, you will notice there is a little button with a + next to the COMPANY entry.
<WalterOS2> I have a perfect example right beside me of a case where you would need something like that.
<Doug> That allows a user to Add a new company from this screen, rather than having to go to the Companies folder to add the company and come back
<Doug> Walter - the special instructions - called comments on this screen - can hold up to 5 MB of text/html
<Doug> That text can be plain text, or it can contain HTML tags. It can also contain images, and references to other folder or items on our site, or on external sites.
<Doug> The IMAGES list is where a use would add an image to our database so that it can be included in the special instructions/comments
<WalterOS2> Some devices will work with OS/2-eCS, but only if you configure them exactly right.
<WalterOS2> That's what I had in mind.
<WalterOS2> 5 MB should be enough. :-)
<Doug> I suspect that there will be a number of cases - both hardware and software - where that is the case.
<WalterOS2> I just bought an HP JetDirect 300x.
<Doug> The main reason that I am linking/integrating EPM into the site/screens - is to make it easier to enter HTML, and to edit/spell check the text.
<WalterOS2> This is a external print server, and the docs specify that some of the functions will work with OS/2 Warp.
<WalterOS2> But it's taken me about 3 days to find the exact combination that works. Most of the information is NOT in the docs. :-(
<WalterOS2> Now it makes my laser printer go like a bat out of....
<WalterOS2> It involves a protocol I've never heard of till now.
<Doug> is the jetdirect a box with an ethernet connection on one end and a parallel port on the other?
<WalterOS2> Right
<WalterOS2> 100baseT ethernet.
<Doug> I need one of those also. How much do they cost?
<WalterOS2> the 300x supports one printer. I got it for $325 Canadian at a web store.
<WalterOS2> You'd have to see where you can get a good deal.
<Doug> HP also has a card that goes in the printer that does the same thing, doesn't it?
<WalterOS2> Hint: The EIO internal cards are more expensive; less flexible; and slower. Avoid them.
<WalterOS2> To work with OS/2, you need to use the DLC/DLL aka 802.2 protocol.
<Doug> BTW - going back to the DRIVERS screen, the URL List is where the actual driver software is stored and/or referenced
<Doug> If a URL or filename ends in *.WPI, then we will automatically start WarpIn to install the driver when it is downloaded.
<Doug> That is the integration with WarpIn that we are proposing.
<WalterOS2> Doug: With the internal cards, there is no parallel cable. The external ones make good use of the wide parallel cable.
<Doug> you would think that the internal card would be cheaper, since it doesn't have to provide a parallel interface, but logic seems to have so little to do with pricing
<WalterOS2> So it would seem.
<Doug> Do the JetDriect thingy has a buffer for storing the print job (or part of it) in the box,
<Doug> ?
<WalterOS2> I wanted the added flexibility. An external server will work on virtually any OS/2-compatible printer.
<WalterOS2> The internal ones will work only if the printer has a special new EIO slot.
<WalterOS2> I'm not sure. There is an on-board web-server. Beyond that, I don't know what kind of hardware is in the box. My guess is that it relies heavily on the computer and laser printer memory.
<WalterOS2> The on-board web-server is nice, because it gives the box cross-platform capability, but it is ridiculously slow.
<WalterOS2> It uses Java applets. :-(
<WalterOS2> I guess we've gone into the Open Session part of our meeting.
<WalterOS2> Anyone want to discuss this or any other subject?
<Gord> Motion to adjourn.
<WalterOS2> All in favour of adjourning, please type Aye.
<Doug> aye
<Gord> Aye.
<WalterOS2> Aye.
<WalterOS2> Doug: HP lists the basic JetDirect 300x at 254.99.
<Doug> I'm looking there right now
<WalterOS2> Look around at the discount houses, and you'll probably get a much lower price at one of them.
<WalterOS2> The motion is carried.
16:49:48 <WalterOS2> Meeting adjourned.