WarpDoctor - General Meeting for 2003-11-16
12:07:58 <WalterOS2> This meeting of Warpdoctor is now in session.
<WalterOS2> I guess we'll have to leave Item 1 about Jonas until he arrives later. :-)
<WalterOS2> I put it at the beginning to give him lots of time.
<WalterOS2> Actually, we could discuss it among ourselves for a bit--might be a good idea as well.
<WalterOS2> What do you guys think of his suggestion?
<Kris> Walter: What suggestion?
<KenKrchnr> I don't know what the actual suggestion was. I just got that there was going to be some big changes to his site and we shouldn't bother putting too much more work into Warpdoctor.
<WalterOS2> I take it you weren't here last time.
<wdl> WalterOS2: The "black helicopters" side of me thinks that the Europeans want to kinda 'take over' Warp advancement.
<WalterOS2> Kris: The section from log is to big to be practically added in here.
<wdl> ...And they will, too, if we don't move right along - briskly.
<WalterOS2> I agree with Bill.
<Kris> Log? You told somethong about a suggestion???
<WalterOS2> to big==too big
<WalterOS2> The "suggestion" came from Jonas Buy who popped into our last meeting. Our discussion is on the WD log.
<KenKrchnr> Kris - http://www.warpdoctor.org/irclogs/2003/10-26-03.log.html
<Kris> Walter, Ken: Maybe it's just me, but I thought a (1) suggestion could be told in just a few words.
<WalterOS2> It's at http://www.warpdoctor.org/irclogs/2003/10-26-03.log.html , near the end if you want to look at it. :-)
<WalterOS2> The suggestion got mixed in with our discussion, and didn't come in a neat package.
<Kris> Is it about merging WD and JB databases?
<WalterOS2> That's it in a nutshell.
<Kris> I do like nutshells.
<WalterOS2> However JB has some super-secret project he's working on, and we got the feeling he wanted to include WD in that project.
<Kris> This "secret" had to do with the new OO and I don't think it is a secret anymore. :-)
<WalterOS2> According to JB, this s-s project has the potential to generate mega-bucks.
<WalterOS2> new OO?
<Kris> Open Office
<WalterOS2> How does that relate to his compatible hardware site or our HCL?
<Kris> Dunno, probably not, but talking about JB's secrets, I think OO was it or at least was one of them. Well, when he pops up, we can ask him, can0t we?
<WalterOS2> Hello Chuck
<WalterOS2> I suppose.
<WalterOS2> I thought we could knock some ideas around amongst ourselves.
<wdl> WalterOS2: I've no objection to cooperation with him. What's best for the community, after all.
<WalterOS2> Looks like we've said all we're going to say, though. :-)
<chuck> hi walter
<wdl> But I'd think we might retain *some* degree of status at least as equals.
<WalterOS2> I agee.
<eCSNL> hello
<WalterOS2> I think our HCL will be more thorough than his. From what I've seen of his, at least.
<wdl> Anyway, it seems there *is* a slight difference in emphasis 'tween his site and ours.
<WalterOS2> Hello Roderick
<wdl> I see no reason why we/they couldn't just accomodate to that.
<wdl> We could mirror "his" where we/they are different, -- and vice-versa??
<WalterOS2> I'm also concerned that WD might get "swallowed up" into his commercial project. I don't think we want that to happen.
<eCSNL> commercial project ?
<eCSNL> What do you mean by this ?
<WalterOS2> "Super-secret" project Jonas Buys said he was working on.
<wdl> Walter: Definitely not - of course. But I don't see insurmountable "real" obstacles to *some* measure of cooperation.
<WalterOS2> This was three weeks ago when he popped in and suprised. :-)
<WalterOS2> wdl: I agree
<WalterOS2> surprised us, I mean.
<WalterOS2> Kris thinks he may have been talking about OO.
<Kris> Walter: Do you really thinl anyone could male mega-bucks with os2?
<Kris> make that could make
<wdl> Kris: IBM still is!
<WalterOS2> They just won't admit it!
<WalterOS2> Or at least, they don't want to talk about.
<WalterOS2> The OS that won't die. :-)
<wdl> I overheard conversations at Warpstock2003. 'Tween IBMers and some others...
<Kris> IBM makes mega-bucks and looses mega-bucks. But we aren't talking about IBM, aren't we?
<WalterOS2> No, but you did say, "Anyone". :-)
<Kris> I'll correct myself: "anyone but IBM :-)
<WalterOS2> As far as mega-bucks, I'm only reporting what Jonas says.
<wdl> The question speaks to can *some*one still make a decent living off OS/2. Answer is yes. Just maybe not in the USA.
<WalterOS2> Since I don't know what he's working on, I can't evaluate it for myself.
<WalterOS2> Roderick does. :-)
<Kris> Rodercikk certainly makes his living, but I doubt he makes mega-bucks.
<WalterOS2> As I said, I can't evaluate what I don't know about.
<WalterOS2> However, I think we've beaten this one to death--at least until/if JB arrives.
<wdl> Kris: It takes an entreprenurial focus. Business plan; focus; investors. But it *can* be done. Europe/Russia is the place to do it.
<Kris> That's exactly what I meant.
<WalterOS2> So let's move on.
<Kris> OK
<WalterOS2> I hope Doug comes in. :-)
<WalterOS2> He lost the election by only a few votes, so he may be feeling a bit down. :-(
<Kris> Meanwhile, has anyone already tried the new e.exe?
<wdl> Yes. Uh, the one just *before* the last drop. Pretty cool!
<wdl> It'll likely be my permanent replacement.
<WalterOS2> If it would print and handle multiple files, I'd take a look at.
<WalterOS2> Those were the main things I hated about e.exe.
<wdl> Ask the author to put 'em in. He's very responsive.
<Kris> Walter: it prints, but doesn't handle multiple files (yest)
<Kris> Make that (yet)
<WalterOS2> I didn't notice any mention of printing in the announcements. Did I miss it?
<Kris> Maybe you are one version behind?
<WalterOS2> I haven't downloaded anything, I was just reading the announcements in VOICE NEWS.
<wdl> Mine prints. It does a FF (???) when finished -> 1 too many sheets. Maybe that's my sustem. Both EE and EEE do the same.
<Kris> As wdl told, it is pretty cool indeed. I've send already the Dutch translation to the author.
<wdl> "Both EE and EEE do the same" --- but no other printing apps do that.
<Kris> wdl: Wordperfect Dos gives me that little problem, but not the new e.exe
<wdl> "Wordperfect DOS" = same here -- but not with *printing*.
<Kris> wdl: what do you mean "not with printing?"
<wdl> Kris: It's spooling I think. Multiple copies of the same doc *sometimes* hangs the machine. Watchcat recovers though.
<eCSNL> Hmm excuse me for saying this warpdoctor session is not over yet and I get he impression we are getting slightly of topic....
<wdl> Same behavior on all Warp versions from v.4 through MCP-2.
<wdl> Waiting for Jonas??
<WalterOS2> Kris: I just downloaded ae and took a look at the readme.txt file.
<eCSNL> Ahaa are we waiting for Jonas ?
<Kris> Walter: and your comment is?
<WalterOS2> Looks impressive enough for me to incorporate it into my system for awhile, anyway.
<eCSNL> WalterOS2 are we waiting for Jonas ?
<eCSNL> Because I think he might be turning up...
<WalterOS2> No, I was downloading AE.
<Kris> Walter: Good!
<eCSNL> He is logged onto a nother IRC channel but not responding...
<wdl> eCSNL: But... I agree. Let's have the meeting. My wife's impatient toe-tapping rings in my ears still... ;-)
<WalterOS2> However, if Doug doesn't come, it's going to leave a big hole in the agenda.
<Kris> wdl: seems your lady is a genuinly ballerina after all. :-)
<WalterOS2> Item A4: XPager problem discussion.
<wdl> Ken: HA! Truly.
<WalterOS2> Doug and I exchanged a few messages about the problem between Rexx Plugin and XPage.
<WalterOS2> For those of who weren't here during the testing,
<WalterOS2> The problem is that when you enter the New WD site and have the RexxPlgin installed in your browser, and are running either eCenter or XPager, the switching feature of XPager is killed.
<WalterOS2> You can't switch to other tasks in the system.
<WalterOS2> Homepage Publisher and certain VX-REXX apps show the same symptoms.
<WalterOS2> It's a royal pain!
<WalterOS2> I'm going to contact Ulrich, author of XWorkplace, about the problem and see if he can fix the problem.
<WalterOS2> Does anyone know any other applications that exhibit this trait?
<WalterOS2> Done.
<WalterOS2> The more information I can give Ulrich, the better chance he'll have of finding the problem.
<WarpedeCS> Urich is full time lawyer now .... does have a lot of time now for Xworkplace..
<WarpedeCS> doesn't have I mean
<eCSNL> I know somebody else who does
<eCSNL> updated on Xworkplace and eWorkplace as well....
<WalterOS2> Who?
<WalterOS2> Hello Per
<eCSNL> Bart van Leeuwen...
<Per> Hello all.
<WarpedeCS> Hi Per
<WalterOS2> eCSNL: Would Ulrich mind if he played around with his program?
<eCSNL> No
<WalterOS2> Do you mind if I ask how you know this? :-)
<eCSNL> Bart and Ulrich
<eCSNL> talk frequently on IRC...
<eCSNL> I have also talked to Bart...
<eCSNL> Bart has already done bug some bug fixing on Xworkplace...
<WalterOS2> Ah.
<wdl> eCSNL: And the fixes are available where?
<WalterOS2> OK, I'll send an email to him, and cc: Ulrich.
<eCSNL> Don't know some fixes
<eCSNL> are still being tested
<eCSNL> don't know the details
<WalterOS2> Thanks for that helpful information, Roderick.
<WalterOS2> Now let's take a look at the next item.
<WalterOS2> 5. Conversion to new VOICE server.
<WalterOS2> We discussed this yesterday, and as I remember Ken was going to contact Mark and Christian to have them test the new cgi scripts Ken had written.
<KenKrchnr> I need to get Christians email address
<WalterOS2> Ah.
<eCSNL> Ahaa
<JonOS2> ecsnl:
<WalterOS2> Hello Jonas.
<JonOS2> eCSNL: go ahead
<JonOS2> walteros2
<WalterOS2> Yes?
<WalterOS2> I guess Jonas went away.
<JonOS2> WalterOS2: still here
<WalterOS2> Let's go back to the question of the server.
<WalterOS2> A number of us tested the converted email addresses.
<WalterOS2> Ken: I did get your messages, thanks.
<WalterOS2> I haven't had a chance to send, yet.
<KenKrchnr> OK, my tests worked
<eCSNL> Just a note os2warp.be is *not* a commercial project...
<KenKrchnr> While Roderick is here, maybe we can talk about voice2 voice3 Apache and Domino Go Webserver.
<WalterOS2> Ken: I just sent you a message, and it seemed to work OK.
<KenKrchnr> Oops, just noticed Jonas is still here, scratch that.
<WalterOS2> His computer is, but I'm not sure he listening to our conversation.
<KenKrchnr> WalterOS2 - got it
<WalterOS2> So Ken, why don't you go ahead with VOICE2, VOICE3, etc.
<KenKrchnr> Right now, Warpdoctor test is running on my secondary server. I had only figured that for a couple of weeks, it's been 12 :-)
<WalterOS2> Wow!
<KenKrchnr> That server is running LDGW as Doug has a problem with Apache and DB/2.
<KenKrchnr> I was talking to Roderick yesterday about a problem I see with Apache v2 on voice2, and he mentioned Mensys is also using LDGW.
<WalterOS2> Hmm.
<KenKrchnr> The problem I ran into with Apache is that it is leaving sockets half open, and after a while OS2 runs out of buffer space for socket handles.
<KenKrchnr> I found that out when voice2 stopped responding after running for 77 days.
<WalterOS2> You mentioned that yesterday, I believe.
<KenKrchnr> All searches I've made say there is nothing I can do about that except reboot when socket handles get up to about 2400.
<KenKrchnr> LDGW does not have that problem.
<KenKrchnr> It also doesn't show up on voice1 with Apache v1, though we also have a different tcpip stack there.
<WalterOS2> But there is the problem of the log files getting to big, right?
<WalterOS2> Make that, too big.
<KenKrchnr> The real crux of the problem is that Doug would prefer to use LDGW, but felt that some others weren't sure that was the way to go.
<KenKrchnr> On voice 1, with Apache v1, log rotation doesn't work.
<KenKrchnr> I have not tried to change the log rotation to the means I used to fix that problem on voice2.
<KenKrchnr> I figured we'd get that fixed by default when we moved to voice2.
<WalterOS2> But it didn't?
<KenKrchnr> Log rotation works fine on voice2.
<KenKrchnr> When the other pages from voice1 move, they'll work as well.
<WalterOS2> Then what did you mean about "fix that problem on voice2."?
<KenKrchnr> I had the problem at first, but got it fixed. I meant I didn't try the same fix on voice1
<WalterOS2> How did you fix it?
<KenKrchnr> I got a third party log rotation script that I found worked.
<WalterOS2> So it didn't get fixed by default?
<KenKrchnr> No, what I was saying was that when the pages on voice1 get moved to voice2, *they'll* be fixed by default
<WalterOS2> OK, now I understand.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<WalterOS2> Is there any chance the 3rd party script is indirectly producing the large number of socket handles?
<KenKrchnr> No, the script doesn't use any sockets.
<WalterOS2> OK.
<KenKrchnr> The sockets that are left in FIN_WAIT_2 are connected to port 80 - Apache
<KenKrchnr> The thing we'll still have to decide is which web server we're going to use :-)
<WalterOS2> Could you write a small utility that runs in the background to delete socket handles that haven't been used for a certain length of time?
<KenKrchnr> Those sockets are left without handles, there is no way to close them.
<WalterOS2> That's not good.
<KenKrchnr> I see a lot of complaints about it, but no OS2 usable fixes for it.
<WalterOS2> Are you saying that Apache on VOICE2 (with the fix) works indefintely, whereas LDGW dies because of the socket problem?
<WalterOS2> I just want to get it clear in my head.
<WalterOS2> :-)
<KenKrchnr> It's just the opposite, LDGW has no socket problem, Apache does.
<WalterOS2> That's why I checked. :-)
<KenKrchnr> And Roderick confirmed that for me yesterday as well.
<WalterOS2> And Doug has problems with Apache and DB2.
<WalterOS2> I think the decision is a no-brainer. :-)
<WalterOS2> Use the one that works.
<KenKrchnr> Yes, Apache takes a long time to respond to his scripts for some reason.
<WalterOS2> Does WD have a licenced copy of LDGW?
<KenKrchnr> Yes, 2 actually.
<WalterOS2> What's your feeling, oh Sysadmin? :-)
<KenKrchnr> Does anybody else have a problem with using LDGW?
<wdl> Go for it!
<WalterOS2> Me:--setting up a certain at home. But that's a different issue.
<WalterOS2> certain=server
<WalterOS2> Ken, you still haven't told us your preference. As SysAdmin your opinion is very important. :-)
<KenKrchnr> If we're going to look at switching, I'll set up the other os2voice pages on voice3 for testing.
<KenKrchnr> I think we should be looking to use what works best for Doug ;-)
<WalterOS2> That's a very good point.
<WalterOS2> Let's take a straw vote.
<KenKrchnr> I don't want to move stuff around until I know everything we have now works as well as on Apache.
<WalterOS2> Does anyone have a problem with switching to LDGW?
<WalterOS2> Speak now, or forever.... :-)
<Kris> I do second Ken.
<wdl> Go for it!!
<eCSNL> Use LDGW
<WalterOS2> Kris: Are you saying you have a problem or that you're seconding Ken?
<Kris> I'm saying Ken is right: only change AFTER you are sure , not before.
<WalterOS2> OK.
<WalterOS2> I agree with Ken on both points as well.
<WalterOS2> I guess that makes it unanimous. :-)
<WalterOS2> Ken: What's on VOICE3 right now?
<KenKrchnr> Just the testbed for Warpdoctor, running under LDGW
<WalterOS2> OK. Has that been running live?
<KenKrchnr> We had started with Apache, but Doug ran into the problems, so we switched that one.
<WalterOS2> I see.
<KenKrchnr> The testbed is only available if -
<KenKrchnr> 1. you change your hosts file to point to its ip
<KenKrchnr> 2. I pull the switch at the firewall, like we've been doing the past several meetings
<KenKrchnr> BTW, Doug updated stuff last week, and to me it seemed to be very much improved.
<WalterOS2> Great!
<WalterOS2> OK, thanks for the update, Ken.
<KenKrchnr> Over the course of the next week, I'll copy some of os2voice to voice3 and start testing.
<WalterOS2> We really appreciate all the work you're putting in our behalf. :-)
<WalterOS2> If Jonas still here, let's give him some time.
<WalterOS2> Jonas: You still here?
<JonOS2> j
<WalterOS2> OK, can you summarize for the new folks what you're proposal is?
<WalterOS2> New = weren't here when you were last time. :-)
<wdl> ---- I need to get this in:
<wdl> ---- I'll be gone (totally unavailable) Friday, Nov 21 2003. through Monday, Dec 15 2003, inclusive. Hence not logging either VOICE or WarpDoctor.
<wdl> ----
<WalterOS2> I'll take care of it. :-)
<WalterOS2> Jonas?
<JonOS2> what's up?
<WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> OK, can you summarize for the new folks what you're proposal is?
<WalterOS2> <WalterOS2> New = weren't here when you were last time. :-)
<Doug> hi
<KenKrchnr> Hi Doug, were your ears burning? :-)
<Doug> Sorry! I was at a beby dedicatation that took FOREVER
<Doug> baby
<JonOS2> yeah, I wasn't there because irc server in ca was down
<WalterOS2> We seem to be having communication problems. :-(
<Doug> ohoh
<eCSNL> The Warpdoctor<->os2warp.be cooperation...
<WalterOS2> Maybe we'll have better luck next week.
<eCSNL> Can that be put on the table now ?
<eCSNL> The meeting has not been closed yet
<Doug> what country does de stand for?
<Doug> sorry be
<WalterOS2> It's after 5:00 ET.
<WalterOS2> Anyone care to move we adjourn?
<eCSNL> be=belgium...
<JonOS2> Belgium, centre of Europe! Don't you American know SOME geography? :p
<Doug> thanks
<Doug> Europe - that is in the western hemisphere, right?
<KenKrchnr> Here in the east we do ;-)
<wdl> Give Jonas some time! He's connecting at least a little bit...
<JonOS2> KenKrchnr: I guess you don't know where Azarbeidzjan is then? ;)
<KenKrchnr> Next to Mississippi!
<WalterOS2> ping walteros2
<JonOS2> hmmm, more people here than last time I was here, all because of me? ;) ;)
<eCSNL> Well we can contunue discusion after the meeting is closed ?
<wdl> Aaaargh!!!
<JonOS2> who died? who's hurt?
<Doug> I would move to adjourn, but it looks like walter already has.
<eCSNL> This might also be his
<eCSNL> IRC client
<wdl> "...continue..." --- of course!
<KenKrchnr> It seems to be Walters connection.
<eCSNL> a couple of sessions back he also had
<eCSNL> some trouble with his IRC client!
<eCSNL> I have seen this before
<eCSNL> please be patient
<eCSNL> He will popup again...
<WalterOS2> Got cut off, somehow. :-(
<WalterOS2> Can someone update me on what I missed?
<KenKrchnr> Nothing, we waited
<Doug> move to adjourn (and continue)
<WalterOS2> Well, I was hoping give Jonas a chance to say something.
<KenKrchnr> Let's just continue
<eCSNL> Nothing much
<eCSNL> Nothing special...
<JonOS2> I am here, I have already spoken :)
<WalterOS2> All in favour of adjourning and coninuing.
<WalterOS2> OK, Let's extend the meeting a bit.
<WalterOS2> Does anyone have to go away right away?
<WalterOS2> I guess not.
<JonOS2> I'm gonna chase Tux in one hour in my worst nightmare :d
<wdl> I'm fending off my wife: "fate of civilization as we know it hangs..." I'll stick around. Awhile.
<WalterOS2> Jonas, Can you summarize for the sake of those who weren't here before what your proposal is?
<KenKrchnr> And even some of us who were here.
<WalterOS2> Couldn't hurt. :-)
* eCSNL is going to put the Tux on the grill
<JonOS2> euhm, well, to be really honnest the proposol about support is withdrawn, webmasters didn't agree with me
<WalterOS2> That was short, if not so sweet. :-(
<JonOS2> sorry, can't do anything about that :s
<WalterOS2> OK, we understand.
<JonOS2> how's your beta site going?
<WalterOS2> What did the other webmasters want to do?
<eCSNL> I think its also not that good to mirror os2warp.be
<eCSNL> os2warp.be is fast moving target!
<eCSNL> Stuff gets updated
<JonOS2> they just didn't want external parties in the support services
<Doug> ok - well, you tried
<WalterOS2> It's getting closer to release.
<WalterOS2> Hey Doug!
<Doug> any feedbck on sharing data?
<WalterOS2> Doug and Ken: Do you want to switch over to the beta site and show off what you've been doing?
<Doug> ok by me
<KenKrchnr> OK, hang on a sec
<WalterOS2> Ken, what's the magic IP?
<Doug> I exchanged emails with Rich Walsh this week, btw.
<WalterOS2> Rich Walsh?
<Doug> I was asking him if there is something DragText can do to solve the drag & drop issues with DrRexx and file system objects.
<Doug> He is the author of Drag Text
<WalterOS2> OK, I didn't know that.
<WalterOS2> What did he say?
<Doug> I guess I will post our emails so you can see all the details, but the short answer is that there is nothing dragtext (DT) can do to help
<KenKrchnr> OK, we're switched
<Doug> our issue of drag and drop
<Doug> although he spent 4 hours or so looking into the problem.
<WalterOS2> Ken: What IP do we need?
<Doug> He thinks it MIGHT be caused by DrRexx using the wrong API call when checking data formats for drop information
<KenKrchnr> Just go to www.warpdoctor.org
<KenKrchnr> You may need to refresh the page if it's in your cache
<WalterOS2> Mozilla can't find www.warpdoctor.org
<WalterOS2> So it says, anyway. :-)
<Kris> I am there
<Doug> The IP is 111.222.333.444
<eCSNL> Non-authoritative answer: Name: voice2.warpdoctor.org Address: 206.135.240.102 Aliases: www.warpdoctor.org
<JonOS2> I can reach it
<Doug> The ip you want to see with ping www.warpdoctor.org is 111.222.333.444
<KenKrchnr> Yeah, but the firewall is redirecting that address right now.
<eCSNL> nslookup
<eCSNL> should that already have been pointing to
<eCSNL> voic2 ?
<WalterOS2> OK, I got it to load, but all I'm getting is a single verticle bar.
<eCSNL> voice1.
<eCSNL> I mean
<KenKrchnr> Yes, Warpdoctor is on voice2 usually.
<wdl> Works here...
<WalterOS2> Let me try NS 4.61.
<KenKrchnr> Right now it's redirected to voice3
<eCSNL> So it seems DNS entry is incorrect....
<WalterOS2> Netscape worked. Must be a setup problem in MZ.
<KenKrchnr> No, dns is correct. It's just that I have that address redirected at our portal.
<WalterOS2> NS doesn't have the Plugin installed.
<WalterOS2> Hmm.
<Doug> Walter - check the Help - About Plug-in to see if it is installed to the browser
<eCSNL> 64 bytes from 206.135.240.102: icmp_seq=0. time=170. ms 64 bytes from 206.135.240.102: icmp_seq=1. time=100. ms 64 bytes from 206.135.240.102: icmp_seq=3. time=100. ms 64 bytes from 206.135.240.102: icmp_seq=6. time=160. ms 64 bytes from 206.135.
<eCSNL> See the ping times to www.warpdoctor.org
<eCSNL> Its loosing datapackets!!!
<WalterOS2> Doug: It's installed in MZ but not in NS 4.61
<WalterOS2> I'm running MZ 1.5
<Doug> You can just copy the npwrpdoc.dll from the Mozilla/plugins directory to the netscape plugins directory
<Doug> Roderick - try editing your HOSTS file and add the line
<Doug> 111.222.333.444 www.warpdoctor.org
<Doug> Then shutdown your browser and restart it.
<WalterOS2> Doug, I'm getting the "security configuration errors" in Mozilla just after the "The Doctor is in" box disappears.
<WalterOS2> I get the message 3 times, then the vertical bar.
<eCSNL> www.os2voice.org can reached perfectly but Mozilla is not connecting because of to long time outs and to much dataloss...
<Kris> Walter: I had this kind of problems with M1.5 too. You better switch to m1.6a
<WalterOS2> Last time I tried 1.6a, it gave me problems; however I forget now what they were.
<WalterOS2> I'll update NS for now.
<Doug> Walter - but you can get there with Netscape (with the plugin?)
<WalterOS2> Haven't copied it yet. Doing so now.
<eCSNL> Could somebody please tell me how we can see the warpdoctor site ?
<eCSNL> I thought that was the topic at the moment ?
<eCSNL> The location where warpdoctor is being hosted is something wrong with
<Doug> ECSNL - the beta site is at 111.222.333.444
<eCSNL> or the server is having trouble...
<Doug> In order to use the Rex plug-in to view the site you will have to modify your HOSTS file to add an entry that overrides the DSN for www.warpdoctor.org
<Doug> since it appears that the firewall is not doing it for you.
<Doug> If you just want to see with site without using the plug-in you can enter http://111.222.333.444
<Doug> and you should get the home page.
<Doug> To see the site with the plug-in you will have to do three things
<JonOS2> small question: is this the layout that the release site will have?
<Doug> pretty much - unless you have some suggestions to make
<Doug> 1) modify your hosts file
<Doug> 2) download and install the plugin from ftp://111.222.333.444
<Doug> 3) when you get the site running - click on the Gear icon, click on Plug-in radio button, click on Apply button, reload www.warpdoctor.org
<eCSNL> I still can not CONNECT
<eCSNL> And I gues that has todo with all the hubs I need to pass on the internet
<WalterOS2> I can't get NS to see the plugin. Something weird must have happened when I installed NS, because it's scattered over 2 or 3 drives in my system.
<Doug> walter - sounds like the netscape you are using is not from the directory where you placed the npwrpdoc.dll file
<eCSNL> Hmmm it seems that Amsterdam Internet Exchange is having trouble...
<eCSNL> Gues a virus is polluting the internet again.....
<KenKrchnr> Roderick, try to see if you can get an ftp connection to 111.222.333.444
<KenKrchnr> BTW, what irc server are you connected to?
<Kris> Ken: 111.222.333.444 is as dead as the dodo here.
<eCSNL> Its useless
<eCSNL> The Mensys webservers
<eCSNL> are also very badly reachable...
<eCSNL> I did a traceroute....
<eCSNL> Somewhere something is consuming huge amounts of data's....
<eCSNL> And then to think the Mensys servers are at location with 2 6 gigabit lines....
<eCSNL> If I remeber correctly...
<eCSNL> Hmm the transatlantic datalines seem to be overloaded...
<Doug> I can ping 111.222.333.444 from Denver ok
<eCSNL> SOmebody try to connect to shop.mensys.nl
<eCSNL> and you will see what I mean...
<eCSNL> I can not reach www.ecomstation.com
<eCSNL> which is in Texas...
<KenKrchnr> Kris, maybe you see the same problem as Roderick? It's working fine from here in eastern US
<eCSNL> Or try and connect to www.ecomstation.nl
<eCSNL> As I told you we need to cross the atlantic!
<eCSNL> Something is overloading a lot of datalines
<WalterOS2> Doug: Managed to get NS to see plugin, but still got errors when I attempted to load www.warpdoctor.org .
<eCSNL> its either a big DoS
<Doug> I can get to shop.mensys.nl ok also
<WalterOS2> However, when I accessed 111.222.333.444, it came up great.
<KenKrchnr> As can I.
<eCSNL> Then you are going over a different route...
<WalterOS2> Using NS 4.61
<eCSNL> Ahaaa the internet jam has cleared up!!
<WalterOS2> Mozilla worked too!
<KenKrchnr> Doug, when I hit Back from shop.mensys.nl I got a "instance" error. Just had to hit reload to clear it tho'
<Doug> Sorry I have to leave, but my wife says I have to take my daughter to the library before it closes. A research project on Goya
<Doug> Ken - you can show them how to input or look at a driver in the Download - Drivers folder can't you?
<KenKrchnr> Yes
<Doug> ok bye guys. Sorry.
<KenKrchnr> Who has managed to connect?
<WalterOS2> I did.
<eCSNL> It works now...
<wdl> I did. But "gear" button comes up with a blank screen. ShowPage has stuff though.
<WalterOS2> Someone turn the lights off (adjourn) when you leave--just to keep the log neat.
<WalterOS2> I'm going to have to go soon as well.
<KenKrchnr> wdl, try to dismiss then reload from the "gear" icon
<wdl> Ditto. But can stick around just a little while longer...
<Kris> Ken: this gear thing, what is it?
<JonOS2> will the final version have the same layout?
<KenKrchnr> JonOS2, yes, that is the plan
<WalterOS2> Suggestions are still welcome, though.
<KenKrchnr> As Doug said :-)
<wdl> Ken: OK.
<KenKrchnr> If you're connected, click the "plus" next to "Downloads"
<JonOS2> I hope you know what you're doing with the drivers?
<wdl> Ken: Ungodly long wait... "Transferring data..." -- still...
<WalterOS2> Kris: The gear is setup information, if I recall correctly.
<JonOS2> there's some companies that make huge troubles with copyrights when it comes to hosting them online
* eCSNL steps in with some legal advise
<Kris> Ken: at which address exactly?
<WalterOS2> You're a lawyer, now , too?
<KenKrchnr> The drivers we'll have are those that are allowed. And where allowed also links to the companies website.
<eCSNL> Well I did device driver licensing for eCS.....
<eCSNL> How do you know does drivers you have are "allowed"....
<WalterOS2> Well, that'll be a help, then.
<eCSNL> I can certainly tell you that device drivers are copyright protected work...
<eCSNL> It maybe "silly" binaries that only run on the vendor there hardware...
<KenKrchnr> They have that info either on their website or within the driver pak (license)
<eCSNL> But copying them on your website *could* give legal trouble....
<WalterOS2> Isn't everything, these days?
<eCSNL> I'm afraid your wrong kenkrchnr
<eCSNL> otherwhise eCS would had 2 times more NIC drivers in it!
<JonOS2> I speak of experience, folks!
<JonOS2> once hosted IBM driver, gave me damn hell of troubles
<eCSNL> If I would not have had to deal with all does business inhibitors (lawyers)
<JonOS2> happily, now resolved with papers ;)
<KenKrchnr> Yes, Voice went thru much the same thing with some IBM drivers.
<WalterOS2> So, counsellor, how do you suggest we handle it?
<eCSNL> I'm not a legal expert
* eCSNL does a standard disclaimer :-)
<WalterOS2> Well, it's time for me to go.
<eCSNL> The only thing that you can do is call a company
<eCSNL> and deal with red tape...
<WalterOS2> You guys want to adjourn the meeting now or do it later?
<eCSNL> Lawyers....
<KenKrchnr> It's getting late, I'd go for adjounment
<jep> Hmm, hmm, I've got a couple of questions I'd like to ask, if I may?
<wdl> Ken: Still "Transferring..." I blew it off.
<WalterOS2> Doesn't mean you have to stop.
<WalterOS2> Just a moment, jep.
<WalterOS2> Ken, do you want to make that a motion?
<KenKrchnr> Motion to adjourn
<eCSNL> aye
<WalterOS2> All in favour of adjournment, type Aye.
<eCSNL> Aye
<wdl> Aye.
<WalterOS2> Aye
<KenKrchnr> Aye
<WalterOS2> As I said, by saying AYE you're not voting to shut down the channel or anything.
<WalterOS2> You can keep talking as long as you like.
* eCSNL runs down to get a cup of coffee and tuns off his alarm...
<WalterOS2> All opposed, type NAY
15:06:50 <WalterOS2> Motion is carried. Meeting is adjourned.