WarpDoctor - General Meeting for 2003-10-26
12:13:43 <WalterOS2> This meeting of Warpdoctor is now in session.
<WalterOS2> Agenda Item A. WARPSTOCK NEWS
<WalterOS2> Doug and Ken: What can you tell us?
<Doug> First - I want to thank Ken again for lending me his laptop. And to apologize for breaking it
<WalterOS2> Not all of us got to go, you know. <sniff>
<WalterOS2> You BROKE his laptop?
<Rat-Salad> oops
<KenKrchnr> Nah, it's fine
<Doug> not on purpose. My mere touch is enough sometimes
<WalterOS2> :-)
<WalterOS2> Hope you're real gentle with people. VBG
<Doug> I though this year's ws was very good. Especially in light of last year's pessimissim about the future of WS
<Doug> People actually showed up for the WD demo. More that I have had for any other presentation i have done as WS
<WalterOS2> Yes..I even heard Mark (inadvertantly I'm sure) make a comment in an email about there being a meeting next year.
<Doug> Actually is seemed pretty upbeat this year.
<Doug> There is a new virtual machine poised to take the place of VPC
<WalterOS2> I wish I could have been there.
<WalterOS2> Tell us more..
<Doug> although I did not get to that presentation. Did you ken?
<KenKrchnr> Yes
<WalterOS2> Will it be also be bought out by MS?
<Doug> Tell us about VM
<Doug> (only if it is successful)
<KenKrchnr> I'll be right with you, phone call right now
<Doug> ok - while ken is talking on the phone
<Doug> I went ot a presentation about Pearl on OS/2
<WalterOS2> That's what I was afraid of. Maybe the makers should Open Source it. Kind of makes it tougher to buy out that way.
<wdl> Bob St.John commented on "...bought out by MS." Wryly, and/but forcefully: "NO"
<WalterOS2> That's good to hear.
<Doug> Bill - I was so busy there I forgot to look for you!
<KenKrchnr> It was ken who precipitated that remark ;-)
<wdl> Doug: But I saw you...!
<WalterOS2> Rat-Salad: Should we see if we could get BSJ for a Speakup?
<Rat-Salad> sure, we could do that... it would do VOICE some good I think
<Doug> You were maning the VOICE table part of the time weren't you?
<KenKrchnr> I'm back, who wants to know what?
<Doug> What? = everything
<WalterOS2> Rat-Salad: OK, Make it so!
<WalterOS2> :-)
<KenKrchnr> The vpc replacement is 2os2, they are just getting to beta of linux host.
<Rat-Salad> just give me an overview of what exactly the speak up would be about, so I know what to say to him when I approach
<WalterOS2> OK, I'll email you the info.
<Rat-Salad> ok
<KenKrchnr> There will be an os/2 host, alpha test hopefully by end of year.
<WalterOS2> Yay!
<wdl> Doug: "...VOICE table..." Yes, a time or two.
<KenKrchnr> We saw the beta of the linux host witheCS guest, but they had problems :-)
<Doug> wdl - now i have a face for the initials
<wdl> Doug: Picture on my web site.
<KenKrchnr> They said there would be usb support on the final version, to give them something MS VPC doesn't have.
<Doug> ken - the new vm with OS/2 as host will not support USB will it?
<Doug> ok - answers that.
<Rat-Salad> I seen the pictures
* Rat-Salad sucks his thumb
<KenKrchnr> Serenity will be the distributor for the new stuff.
<Rat-Salad> if I went, I'd probably end up being the youngest user there
<Doug> by 10-20 years
<KenKrchnr> You'd have definitely been in the minority.
<Rat-Salad> I'm 23 :)
<Doug> All the european guys as a bunch younger than the north american guys
<Doug> as=are
<Doug> someone did presentations on PHP (which I missed) and XUL, which I had never heard of before
<Doug> but which looks very interesting - for someone committed to Mozilla.
* WalterOS2 isn't married to Mozilla, but so far it is doing by far the best job of any browser he's tried.
<Doug> mozilla is the future, at least for the non-MS world.
* WalterOS2 agrees.
<Doug> There was disagreement on what the Intel and AMD 64bit processors will do or mean for OS/2 in the future
<WalterOS2> However, I still Netscape installed and available for those few sites that Mozilla can't handle.
<WalterOS2> still keep Netscape....
<WalterOS2> Doug: Did there seem to be a predominent view?
<Doug> Oliver Mark had presentation that talked about moving IBM customers off WIndows/OS/2 to LInux
<Doug> It appears that the new Intel 64 bit processor may or may not run 32 bit software, whereas the new AMD 64 bit processor will run 32 bit stuff
<Doug> I am not up on the future CPUs planned so I am not a good source for this
<WalterOS2> OK..I haven't bought an Intell processor in years, anyway.
<KenKrchnr> Intel Itanium at this point will only run 32 bit stuff as a virtual cpu.
<WalterOS2> That's great...Not.
<KenKrchnr> AMD 64 bit will run 32 bit native, faster than Intel P4
<Doug> Ok - that seems to be the same story I heard at the meeting
<WalterOS2> Will it be faster than an AMD 32 bit?
<KenKrchnr> Yes
<WalterOS2> Really? That surprises me.
<Doug> Seems like an easy decision then.
<Doug> stick with AMD.
<WalterOS2> Did they mention how they get the extra speed?
<Doug> I personally think that any CPU released that doesn't handle 32 bit, and even 16 bit, software well will not succeed on the market
<KenKrchnr> New pipelining systems and use of 64 bit internal paths even in 32 bit mode
<WalterOS2> OK..Good engineering design.
<WalterOS2> Doug: What about your WD presentation? Anything interesting in there you'd like to share?
<Doug> I was suprised by the attendence. The presentation went well, although there were a few bugs
<Doug> There appears to be a lot of interest in WD
<Doug> we showed logging on, uploading a file as a Driver, looking around the site, etc.
<Doug> questions came up about our safeguarding or archiving of sites such as hobbes
<Doug> and storing or making available software or drivers that are not generally available anymore
<Doug> what did you think Ken/Bill?
<KenKrchnr> I thought it went quite well.
<wdl> I enjoyed the whole thing. It *did* go well. Too much overlap of interesting sessions, though. :-9
<WalterOS2> That's always a complaint/problem.
<wdl> uh - " :-(
<KenKrchnr> Mark said until the last moment they weren't sure how many presentations there'd be.
<WalterOS2> In Toronto, we held a 3-day event, and tried to solve the problem by having more duplicates of the really popular sessions. That helped some.
<wdl> Interesting thing at wrapup: Stan S. asked for "how many 1st-timers?" A BIG bunch of hands went up.
<WalterOS2> That's REALLY good news.
<KenKrchnr> There weren't many dups this year.
<WalterOS2> You get the time in a 2-day session.
<Doug> 3-day sessions are better, but I think it is best to have them on Fri,Sat,Sun rather than Sat, Sun, Mon
<WalterOS2> It was easier to do in Canada because the event was held on the same weekend as our Thanksgiving.
<WalterOS2> You don't get the time... I should have said.
<WalterOS2> I don't really care which days you use, but 3-day sessions are a lot better for a lot of reasons.
<WalterOS2> You don't feel as rushed; you've got more time to meet virtual friends IRL, etc.
<Doug> why don't you guys host the next ws?
<WalterOS2> I'm sure the WS committee would love to hear from you, and to send to a proposal application.
<WalterOS2> That's been a major problem every year. No local people want to volunteer to host the event.
<WalterOS2> You'll need 6-8 other people to help to make up a team, and it is an awfull lot of work, especially for the event chairman.
<WalterOS2> If you're really interested, just send Mark and email.
<Doug> I meant you guys in Toronto, eh?
<WalterOS2> Sorry, I misread the message. :-)
<WalterOS2> I don't think the fellow who chaired the team last year *ever* wants to do it again.
<WalterOS2> It almost finished him.
<Doug> can't say that I blame him, but you guys did a great job.
<WalterOS2> Thanks, I'll mention it to him.
<WalterOS2> Anyway, I guess we should move on.
<WalterOS2> I think we've covered everything under Agenda Item A.
<WalterOS2> Agenda Item B. Old Business
<WalterOS2> 1. Status of Warpdoctor
<WalterOS2> Doug have you made any changes or fixes sinces we last met?
<WalterOS2> You mentioned loading a file as a driver.
<Doug> a few in prep for the WS meeting: the new site now handles IRC meeting agendas and logs
<Doug> The xPager problem is waiting for me to send you documentation to send to Achim
<Doug> and will probably wait until he fixes xPages.
<Doug> I have a few more screens to finish, and shadowing to implement
<WalterOS2> Not Achim..Ulrich (sp>)
<Doug> Ooops - you are right Ulrich (where did I get Achim from?)
<Doug> I don't think shadowing will be that tough, but the screens are ending up requiring more programming that I anticipated.
<Doug> As as demonstrated at the WD presentation. I have to write code to reposition the controls on each screen when the screen is resized.
<Doug> Since DrRexx does not to an acceptable job in most circumstances
<Doug> right now what works is: html, image, driver, agenda and log screens, filelist and image list screens
<Doug> screens left to do are: plain text, HCL, SCL publication, bug screens. The HCL and SCL screens should be derivative of the Drivers screen
<WalterOS2> How big a job is it to implement on the WD site what you demonstrated at WS?
<Doug> It is running right now.
<WalterOS2> OK, I didn't know we could do now some of things you mentioned.
<Doug> You can alter your HOSTS file and get to it now. If time permits this week, I will do more WD work and then upload the changes this weekend
<Doug> Right now the big bug-a-boo about uploading changes is that I am just replacing the DB2 database on VOICE3 with what I backup on my server
<Doug> which means that any input put in by someone on VOICE3 goes away
<WalterOS2> Doug..OK, I understand.
<WalterOS2> Let's postpone any debugging for the moment.
<KenKrchnr> speaking of inputting, has anyone heard from Gord recently?
<WalterOS2> Agenda Item B2: Status of conversion to new VOICE server.
<WalterOS2> Not I.
<WalterOS2> Ken, what else do you need to have before we can make the server switch?
<Doug> I haven't heard from Gord either for a while
<KenKrchnr> VOICE2 is now running warpdoctor and forums.
<WalterOS2> Hello JonOS2
<JonOS2> hello
<KenKrchnr> I've tested as much as I can the stuff the newsletter people use, it seems it should work
<WalterOS2> Welcome to the WarpDoctor meeting. :-)
<JonOS2> sorry to interrupt in discussion, but am I on the WarpDoctor board irc channel?
<Doug> yes you are
<WalterOS2> And you are very welcome.
<JonOS2> hŠhŠ, thanks
<WalterOS2> The meeting actually started at 3:00p EST (20:00 GMT)
<WalterOS2> But better late than never.
<JonOS2> sorry...
<JonOS2> are there any people here that are actually developing warpdoctor website?
<Doug> all of us
<JonOS2> ahaaa, great!
<WalterOS2> We all are, but Doug is the main man.
<Doug> you are in the right place
<JonOS2> I would like to ask something, but please tell me if I was interrupting an important discussion or something
<WalterOS2> No..go ahead.
<JonOS2> well... anyone that knows me (I guess not;))?
<KenKrchnr> Jonas Buys?
<JonOS2> jes, the one of os2warp.be if you know that web site
<WalterOS2> we all do, I think.
<JonOS2> oh, is that positive or negative ?
<wdl> Good site; very valuable.
<Doug> positive
<JonOS2> ok
<JonOS2> now perhaps you know that we (=people behind website) are trying to set up a support system
<JonOS2> for people to ask assistance when they have problems with hardware
<JonOS2> but the problem is that we can't manage both support requests and web development
<JonOS2> and I thought warpdoctor was something similar, providing people support if they have problems with OS/2, and hw included. Is that correct?
<WalterOS2> How are you doing the support? By email, web, phone?
<Doug> That is correct Jonas
<JonOS2> WalterOS2: it'a a php form, that is being sent to os2helpdesk@easynet.be
<WalterOS2> OK, thanks.
<JonOS2> WalterOS2: problem is that I have to spread to different people
<JonOS2> WalterOS2: and I really can't do that anymore... at least not all of the time, I'm soooo buzzy with new hardware projects
<JonOS2> so that's why I would like to ask if you guys of warpdoctor would like to assist us
<WalterOS2> Assist you how?
<JonOS2> p.e. just by resolving some part of the support requests
<Doug> Do you want to route the email to Wd somehow for reponses?
<Doug> or the PHP form?
<JonOS2> hmm... that's the tricky part... there are so many diverse hardware problems, and everyone has a lot of experience in its own fields, mine is p.e. wireless networking, and win32prn, pci-x and those things
<JonOS2> so I thing we should get rid of a "mailing system"
<WalterOS2> JonOS2: What is your recommendation?
<JonOS2> what I would like wd to ask is to take care of all the support requests you think you're capable of doing (not soo many support requests)
<JonOS2> the thing is that I don't really know what wd is nor how it works... could someone briefly explain, perhaps we can figure out solution then?
<Doug> Part of what WD will do duplicates your hardware compatibility list
<WalterOS2> OK, but how? You said you didn't want to use email. What is your idea? :-)
<Doug> But we are planning to have a link - either external or internal - for the actual driver needed,
<JonOS2> Doug:so you're working of hw list too?
<Doug> yes - and it would be great if we could combine resources and manpower
<JonOS2> WalterOS2: I don't know yet, I don't know for instance how many people you have that take care of "support requests"
<WalterOS2> That would be the ideal thing, in my opinion.
<Doug> we have discussed various ways of handling on-line, realtime, mail list, etc. support
<Doug> both by ourselves and in conjunction with the ecs folks in europe
<Doug> we have not come to any conclusion on how to do that yet.
<Doug> Am I stating everything correctly WD guys?
<JonOS2> hmmm.... we're working on automating our hw list for a secret project with a particular company
<JonOS2> and I would like a cooperation for both hw lists
<Doug> when I say cooperate or combine information, i meant data rather than systems
<JonOS2> Doug: don't understand what you're trying to say
<Doug> meaning that you and us would keep our respective systems, but hopefully find some way of combining or sharing data
<Doug> for instance: if we get information about a new device, or old device that works with OS/2, we would send you that information.
<JonOS2> well yes, that's the tricky part ;) what hw list do you guys already have?
<Doug> Likewise, if you get new driver info we would get that
<JonOS2> Doug: I guess a centrally managed db is the best thing
<Doug> We don't have much information yet. But we do have a centralized database
<JonOS2> url?
<Doug> www.warpdoctor.org
<Doug> but the new site that is being developed is not linked to that URL
<JonOS2> oh, I see
<Doug> What would probably happen in the beginning is that we would take you list, find the drivers that go with each hardware item, and create links/store the driver
<JonOS2> ahaaa, nono! mind (c) please :p
<Doug> you have much more hardware items listed.
<JonOS2> yes, BUT let me explain something...
<Doug> we plan to have a driver associated for each hardware item, and instructions, if necessary, for installing the driver
<JonOS2> I've just had some hard words with quasarbbs.it today
<JonOS2> we at os2warp.be really mind the (c) terms we have put online
<JonOS2> the reasons are simple:
<JonOS2> we put a HUGE amount of money, money, money, time & efforts inthe list
<JonOS2> and then I'm talking about some Õ 2000 every year
<JonOS2> u understand?
<Doug> we are concerned about not voilating copyrights also. But having a link to the actual driver needed for a specific hardware device is not a violation of copyright, usually
<JonOS2> nono, but euhm, tell me
<JonOS2> have you guys already done html/php coding for that list?
<Doug> we aren't using PHP, but the answer is yes.
<Doug> we have a very different interface than you do.
<JonOS2> err... problemo
<JonOS2> so you're actually gonna take our list as basis?
<Doug> yes....?
<KenKrchnr> No, the wd list isn't any more than the interface right now.
<Doug> if you agree and think that is a reasonable thing to do
<WalterOS2> At this point we haven't decided to do anything; we're just talking. :-)
<Doug> sorry - I meant that. If you agree, we agree and everything turns out ok.
<Doug> What I was suggesting is more or less mirroring DATA, not interface
<WalterOS2> Ken: There are some devices in there..on the old server at least.
<Doug> which would require you and us to agree on data fields and definitions, in order to exchange data
<JonOS2> well, I will talk about this with the other people of os2warp.be
<Doug> what you would get, if you want it, is the links for the drivers.
<Doug> If everyone agrees, of course
<JonOS2> Doug: I can't tell that yet now, but I advice you not to spend too much time now of working about it
<JonOS2> I think it would be better to make 1 db
<JonOS2> instead of updating twice
<WalterOS2> In theory, at least.
<Doug> That might not be possible, because we will have other stuff that you don't have in your site, on ours.
<JonOS2> Doug: what info?
<JonOS2> links, comments and what else?
<Doug> documentation, a software equivilent to the hardware compatibility, lists of companies that develop, support, consult in OS/2, etc.
<JonOS2> small queston in between: are any of you coming to WarpWeekend?
<Doug> you, on the other hand, have stuff that we don't, such as your hardware projects
<WalterOS2> Our hardware compatibility list is only a small part of the warpdoctor project.
<Doug> what is warpweekend
<Doug> ?
<JonOS2> the alternative for the cancelled warpstock europe this year, next weekend
<WalterOS2> A scaled down version of Warpstock-E
<JonOS2> WalterOS2: are you starting new warpdoctor project?
<Doug> I would LOVE to go, but I just got back from WarpStock in SF.
<WalterOS2> No, if I understand your question correctly.
<JonOS2> WalterOS2: so just new hw list?
<WalterOS2> Let me clarify.
<WalterOS2> There was a very old project called Warp Pharmacy, which fell into disrepair.
<WalterOS2> We are trying to resurrect that project and enlarging it greatly and have changed the name to WarpDoctor.
<WalterOS2> That is only WarpDoctor around; Phase 1, if you like, is at www.warpdoctor.org
<JonOS2> already know site
<WalterOS2> Phase 2 is under development and soon be available to the public.
<JonOS2> and what's phase 2 concretely?
<WalterOS2> The hardware compatibility is one component WD Phase 2.
<JonOS2> and the other components?
<Doug> phase 2 - new interface, using database, new types of data, etc.
<WalterOS2> Ken: Can you tell him how to see it?
<Doug> Jonas - are you trying to commercialize your data, or the system that presents the data?
<JonOS2> Doug: NOT AT ALL, os2warp.be is INDEPENDANT and will remain so, except perhaps for one seperate project
<WalterOS2> Doug: Is your WD presentation at WS online?
<Doug> sorry - not yet.
<KenKrchnr> The new site is at 206.135.xxx.xxx
<Doug> Jonas - the duplication we will potentially have with you, in some areas, we ( and you) will also have with other sites
<Doug> For instance there is a russian site that has lots of OS/2, ecs information
<Doug> I can't remember the URL
<KenKrchnr> That will get the Javascript version.
<JonOS2> I saw it
<JonOS2> just minor update than the old db? the one at warpdoctor.org/hcl or something similar
<JonOS2> Doug: fact is that I've already contacted some companies, and we soon have agreement for hardware tests
<JonOS2> and not just small companies, I mean the really huge ones, market leaders like intel
<WalterOS2> Hello Kris and Jappe
<Doug> you mean an agreement where they pay you to test hardware for them?
<JonOS2> Doug: I already stressed it: os2warp.be IS and WILL REMAIN independent from any company at all! we just have agreements that are nearly concluded by contract that would really allow us to make HUGE progresses to the hw db
<WalterOS2> JonOS2: Go to http://206.135.xxx.xxx/ and you'll get a good idea of what's in development now, i.e. "Phase 2"
<Doug> ok - I don't mean to pry. I am just trying to make sure that we don't step on any toes
<JonOS2> Doug: no problemo!
<JonOS2> Doug: though I should mention that we're most probably going to accept some funds from company that I can't tell for the section about win32prn project
<WalterOS2> win32prn?
<Doug> making windows printer drivers work in OS/2
<JonOS2> project has some secret roots, can't tell more about that
<WalterOS2> thx
<Doug> or rather, drivers for the type of printers called windows printers.
<Doug> Jonas - that is excellent news. The more drivers/hardware that works with OS/2 the better.
<WalterOS2> You mean "host-based" printers?
<JonOS2> in any way, we're going to spend a LOT of money to buying printers
<JonOS2> now, about the hardware list...
<Doug> walter - I believe so.
<JonOS2> the thing is that we are planning the very same thing you're doing
<Doug> Yes - if you are going to do the actually testing, then that is a HUGH project - both time and money
<Doug> yes and no.
<JonOS2> however, we're determined to keep the db 100% accurate adn professional
<JonOS2> because the automated db is mainly for a company (we do NOT get money for it however)
<Doug> We are not planning on doing the testing ourselves, but on relying on the user community to provide input on what workd
<WalterOS2> places like Netlabs.
<Doug> so in that area, we are planning to the the same things
<JonOS2> Doug: not really, we test everything ourselves, or rely upon companies we have partnered with
<Doug> I was thinking of the data you have from user input forms on your site.
<Doug> sounds like you are going to differentate the data - user input from tested by you
<JonOS2> btw, if you're going to rely on user feedback, you're going to be very, very disappointed, OS/2 people are selfish, and they don't report a lot
<KenKrchnr> Well, I don't think OS/2 users are very different from other OS users in that respect.
<Doug> you probably have more experience in this than we do, but we are still hopeful
<WalterOS2> It's hardly fair to categorize an entire group of people like that?
<WalterOS2> Some are probably selfish, and others, like you, are very unselfish.
<JonOS2> WalterOS2: I don't know you guys personally, but I know some OS/2 developers, and other people like me and we've all had it
<JonOS2> we're fed up with it, it demotivates, you know
<Doug> we heard some of the same feelings from Roderick in NL
<JonOS2> Roderick is someone that understands me for 100%
<JonOS2> I'm pretty sure Christian Langanke will too
<WalterOS2> BTW, Roderick volunteer to put his name and phone number on the VOICE web site for telephone support.
<JonOS2> WalterOS2: hŠhŠ, and he's now complaining he hasn't got anough time to sleep ;)
<WalterOS2> My name's going up there too very shortly.
<JonOS2> hŠhŠ
<Doug> part of the problem may be that OS/2 is comming from a commercial world into an open source type of user supported community
<JonOS2> Doug: true
<Doug> and it may take some time to change attitudes in the community
<WalterOS2> That's certainly a possibility.
<Doug> Linux, on the other hand grew up in the "everyone shares in the work" world
<Doug> we are caught in the middle.
<JonOS2> Doug: and look at what it become, one huge mess, nothing better than commercial sw
<JonOS2> anyway, I would like to cooperate on that hw database
<Doug> there are other problems too, such as I suspect it is very hard to sell commercial software in the Linux world
<WalterOS2> OK, I'll put that on the agenda for the next meeting--next Sunday.
<Doug> I will send you some database definitions and we can see if it is possible to share data.
<WalterOS2> JonOS2: Send me your email address and I'll add you to WD announcement list for meetings, etc.
<JonOS2> jonas.buysNOT@THISeasynet.be; I'll have look at it, and I will discuss with other members
<JonOS2> WalterOS2: take jonas_buysNOT@THISyahoo.com please
<WalterOS2> OK, will do.
<Doug> If this works - great. If not, at least we have tried.
<JonOS2> indeed, we should grasp the opportunity
<WalterOS2> I'm glad we're now discussing this.
<Doug> I will try to get you something this week.
<JonOS2> anyway, 2004 will be a great year for hw listing
<Doug> the win32prn project is great news. Exactly what OS/2 needs.
<JonOS2> I would advice you guys not to put too much work in your db already. If we would work together, it would perhaps require (major/minor) changes
<Doug> It may indeed.
<JonOS2> Doug: there's still a lot of work, but there's a whole lot more to the project that is still secret
<WalterOS2> Time to wrap-up the meeting. :-)
<Doug> thanks for coming Jonas
<WalterOS2> Of course you're welcome to stay and chat informally as long as you like. The chatroom is always open.
<JonOS2> no problemo, I really would like to come back to the support issues next time, if you don't mind
<JonOS2> I'll stay ;)
<WalterOS2> OK, I'll put that down too.
<WalterOS2> The chair is prepared to hear a motion for adjournment.
<Doug> so moved
<WalterOS2> Thank you.
<WalterOS2> All in favour of adjourning the meeting, please type Aye.
<wdl> Aye.
<Doug> aye
<JonOS2> aye?
<Doug> fancy form of yes
<WalterOS2> Sorry about that.
<JonOS2> nope
<WalterOS2> All opposed to adjourning the meeting, please type Nay or No.
<WalterOS2> Jonas, let me explain.
<JonOS2> sorry, typing error: no problem
<JonOS2> I thought nope = no problem
<WalterOS2> All we're doing here is ending the formal part of the meeting during which the log is kept. As I said earlier you can stay and chat as long as you like afterward.
<WalterOS2> It's just a formality, really.
<Doug> (walter gets all formal at the end of the meeting)
<WalterOS2> Any opposed?
14:35:35 <WalterOS2> Motion is carried. Meeting is adjourned.