WarpDoctor - General Meeting for 2003-08-24
15:13:23 *** The topic for #warpdoctor is: Warpdoctor Meeting in Session: Agenda at: http://www.warpdoctor.org/agendas/warpdoc_2003-08-24.html
15:14:05 <WalterOS2> For those who haven't read the agenda yet, it's at http://www.warpdoctor.org/agendas/warpdoc_2003-08-24.html .
15:22:42 <WalterOS2> Ken: You there?
15:22:49 <KenKrchnr> I'm here.
15:23:08 <WalterOS2> Would like to log the meeting for us?
15:23:14 <KenKrchnr> I got it.
15:23:41 <WalterOS2> Thanks. I've got a backup log running if yours goes down.
15:24:03 <WalterOS2> This meeting of Warpdoctor is now officially in session.
15:24:35 <WalterOS2> A. Old Business
15:24:48 <WalterOS2> 1. Status of Warpdoctor
15:25:30 <WalterOS2> Doug, you said you'd think about whether you could find a way around having to hard-code the URL. Any luck?
15:25:46 <WalterOS2> In the plug-in.
15:25:55 <Doug> No - but I have moved the system to www.warpdocto.org
15:26:15 <WalterOS2> How does that help?
15:26:31 <Doug> you don't have to change you host file.
15:27:51 <WalterOS2> Doug: first, did you really mean to leave the "r" off "warpdoctor"?
15:28:16 <WalterOS2> Off the end in the URL, I mean.
15:28:17 <Doug> no it is the real address: www.warpdoctor.org
15:28:26 <Doug> I am right now trying to make sure that it working.
15:28:39 <Doug> I need to shutdown irc for a minute or two. then I will be back
15:33:26 <WalterOS2> Ken: I have a question. Where is VOICE running these days. On TE or on your server?
15:34:30 <NielsJ> Walter: What is TE?
15:34:46 <KenKrchnr> Voice is still on IE. Only Warpdoctor is on voice2
15:35:10 <WalterOS2> TE = Think Extreme, the ISP hosting VOICE and Warpdoctor.
15:37:33 <WalterOS2> Ken: Your server is 204.228.229.178?
15:37:50 <KenKrchnr> voice2 is 206.135.240.102
15:38:27 <KenKrchnr> Right now we also are using 206.135.240.98 as a testbed for the new warpdoctor
15:38:46 <KenKrchnr> (that's what Doug calls voice3)
15:39:09 <WalterOS2> yet, if I do a host www.voice.org I get 204.228.229.178
15:39:26 <WalterOS2> which must be TE.
15:39:31 <WalterOS2> ?
15:39:46 <KenKrchnr> Yes, but that's voice. Voice2 only hosts warpdoctor right now.
15:40:02 <KenKrchnr> Try host www.warpdoctor.org
15:40:44 <WalterOS2> OK, I see now.
15:41:19 <WalterOS2> I didn't read your answer to my earlier question right. :-)
15:41:41 <WalterOS2> Doug: Doug: What is the difference between http://www.warpdoctor.org and http://www.warpdoctor.org ? I'm confused. :-)
15:42:05 <Doug> they look the same to me.
15:42:23 <KenKrchnr> :-)
15:42:39 <WalterOS2> You said you moved Warpdoctor to http://www.warpdoctor.org and that would help the IP problem.
15:42:42 <WalterOS2> ?
15:42:51 <Doug> Walter - if you go to www.warpdoctor.org/home.html you will get the new site
15:43:24 <Doug> however I just now finished uploading the plug-in part of the site and it is not working yet.
15:43:45 <Doug> So you can only see the JS version. I might have the plugin- part working before the meeting ends
15:44:09 <WalterOS2> grr. You're just trying to frustrate me, aren't you? (VBG)
15:44:54 <Doug> walter - please try www.warpdoctor.org/home.html and tell me what you get.
15:45:20 <NielsJ> Doug: I just got a 404 error on www.warpdoctor.org/home.html
15:45:51 <Doug> Sorry - at this time you must be using Mozilla or a mozilla based browser.
15:45:54 <WalterOS2> NOT FOUND - URL /home.html was not found on this server
15:46:11 <WalterOS2> I am. Mozilla 1.4
15:46:16 <NielsJ> I was using Mozilla 1.4
15:46:27 <Doug> Ken - does www.warpdoctor.org point to 206.135.240.98 ?
15:47:02 <Rat-Salad> umm ok.. if your using mozilla you would get a 404 on home.html???
15:47:03 <KenKrchnr> No, it is still .102
15:47:18 <Doug> ok - sorry, I am the one confused here.
15:47:25 <Kris> I went there with mozilla 1.4, and got the 404 error too
15:47:37 <WalterOS2> Hi Jeremy -- Thanks for sending me the info. :-)
15:47:40 <Doug> I was thinking that www.warpdoctor.org was pointing to the server where we have loaded the new site. My mistake
15:48:06 <Doug> That means that you will have to edit your host file to add the line
15:48:07 <WalterOS2> Oh.Oh...now DOug's getting confused, too!
15:48:14 <Doug> 206.135.240.98 www.warpdoctor.org
15:48:50 <Doug> But - the IP address will not change.
15:48:53 <Rat-Salad> hehe sorry Doug, I didn't mean to sound that way... I just knew that it was not logical that you were saying mozilla being the reason for a 404
15:49:13 <Doug> Yeah - I realized that right after I typed it
15:49:30 <Doug> But it is still true that the new site won't work yet with Netscape.
15:50:00 * Rat-Salad scratches his head
15:50:10 <Doug> Sorry guys - we were going great guns last week until we ran into a hitch with Apache
15:50:48 <Doug> RS: the reason it doesn't work yet with Netscape is that in JS mode it uses CSS stuff that netscape does not recognize
15:51:26 <Rat-Salad> you mean netscape communicator, not mozilla then
15:51:28 <Gord> JS = JavaScript???
15:51:44 <Doug> I have to modify the part that puts out the folders so that with Netscape browsers it uses Layers that NS recognizes
15:51:56 <Doug> JS = javaScript. Netscape = Netscape 4.61 or lower.
15:51:58 <WalterOS2> Doug--I editted my HOSTS file as specified and I still get a 404 error.
15:52:08 <Rat-Salad> that's what I thought
15:52:10 <Doug> Netscape v 5,6,7 on windows work fine.
15:52:12 <WalterOS2> Using Mozilla 1.4
15:52:22 <Doug> (was there ever a version 5?)
15:52:45 <KenKrchnr> Walter, did you restart Mozilla after the change?
15:52:51 <Doug> Mozilla 1.4 should work fine, although i have been doing most of my testing lately with Firebird
15:52:58 <WalterOS2> Doug: What's the latest version of the plugin?
15:53:49 <Doug> I will have to look. But I have to upload a new version anyway.
15:54:17 <WalterOS2> I was having too many problems with multiple instances and bookmarks, that I finally went back to Mozilla 1.4. It may be slower, but it is reliable which is what I need most.
15:54:28 <Doug> I am right now trying to configure the web server to get the plug-in stuff to work. It needs to send an encoding header with the rexx app files that run the site.
15:55:02 <KenKrchnr> Doug, it's working from here (home).
15:55:17 <WalterOS2> I think I'm many version behind because I had trouble finding an update awhile ago. Maybe that's a factor.
15:55:19 <Doug> The JS or plug-in?
15:55:31 <WalterOS2> plug-in
15:55:42 <KenKrchnr> Walter, what message came up?
15:55:54 <WalterOS2> 404 message
15:55:55 <Doug> ok - let me upload the latest version right now. Give me a sec.
15:56:12 <KenKrchnr> Did you restart Mozilla after changing the hosts file?
15:56:33 <WalterOS2> Correction: The message was NOT FOUND. The requested URL /home.html was not found on this server.
15:56:41 <KenKrchnr> (And if you have turbo option you need to drop that as well)
15:56:43 <WalterOS2> Ken: Yes
15:56:58 <WalterOS2> I didn't do that.
15:57:06 <WalterOS2> Let me try that.
15:57:07 <Kris> Not found - sma e here
15:57:37 <Doug> When you change your HOSTS file you must shut down the browser you are using and restart the browser.
15:58:12 <Doug> I have found that sometimes the browser window goes away but the browser continues to run. The only way to check this with PSTAT or WatchCat or something like that.
15:58:32 <Kris> Done so. still not found here
15:58:41 <Doug> And I have experienced that with every browser I have used: netscape, all mozilla flavors, Opera.
15:59:01 <WalterOS2> Shutdown Mozilla and killed MozTurbo and got exactly the same results.
15:59:19 <KenKrchnr> Kris, type "host www.warpdoctor.org" and see that the proper address is returned.
15:59:31 <Doug> Ok = plugin install file is at ftp://www.warpdoctor.org
15:59:33 <KenKrchnr> (206.135.240.98)
15:59:48 <WalterOS2> I check the process list almost as a matter of routine.
15:59:59 <Doug> What might be happening is that your TCP/IP might be set not to look at HOSTS first.
16:00:26 <WalterOS2> I ALWAYS set that option on, but I can check.
16:00:31 <Doug> On theTCPIP setup screens - the HOST tab, I believe there is a checkbox for using the HOSTS file first for name lookup.
16:00:54 <Kris> Ken: got "invalid url"
16:01:06 <Doug> other thing is: after you change your HOSTS file, try PING www.warpdoctor.org and see what comes back
16:01:19 <Doug> should be 206.135.240.98
16:01:58 <NielsJ> I changed the host file, and now host www.warpdoctor.org points to the new site, i.e. 206.135.240.98
16:02:08 <WalterOS2> Doug Hosts First Option is Checked.
16:02:30 <Doug> ok Nielsj - you SHOULD be able to get to www.warpdoctor.org/home.html now
16:02:32 <KenKrchnr> Also, what is the name of the server that reports the error. Should be Lotus Domino Go Webserver.
16:02:39 <Doug> Walter - try ping
16:05:40 <WalterOS2> Doug: what is the name of the Install file?
16:05:49 <Doug> wdRexxIn.wpi
16:05:56 <WalterOS2> thx
16:06:38 <Doug> it SHOULD recognize your mozilla v 1.4 ok. Firebird users must manually select the directory where to install the plug-in
16:10:28 <KenKrchnr> Kris - sorry, I missed your answer before. Did you try to ping www.warpdoctor.org?
16:11:02 <Kris> Ken, do you mean in Mozilla?
16:11:49 <KenKrchnr> No, just use a command prompt and type "ping www.warpdoctor.org" it should return "206.135.240.98".
16:12:04 <KenKrchnr> You can ctrl-c to stop the ping.
16:13:09 <Kris> No, I'm getting 206.135.240.102
16:13:39 <KenKrchnr> OK, do you have "use hosts first" set in your tcpip config?
16:13:58 <WarpedOS2> I get same as kris
16:14:26 <WalterOS2> I'm getting 206.135.240.102 too.
16:14:47 <Doug> ok that are getting the wrong addres. From a command prompt change to your C drive
16:14:55 <Doug> then type dir hosts /s
16:15:08 <WalterOS2> Also, I've installed the new version of the plugin and still no joy on www.warpdoctor.org/home.html
16:15:24 <Doug> this should list all the hosts files on your machine. it is possible there is more than one
16:16:22 <WalterOS2> There should be.
16:16:36 <Kris> Why should it be on a C; drive?
16:16:38 <NielsJ> I left due to browser restart (using Chatzilla). I can now connect to the new www.warpdoctor.org/home.html site
16:16:41 <WalterOS2> I've got one in \mptn\etc
16:16:55 <WarpedOS2> there is where hosts resides Walter
16:16:59 <WalterOS2> \tcpip\dos\etc
16:17:17 <Doug> Kris - if your boot drive or TCPIP install directory is not on C, change to the drive they are one before doing the dir hosts /s
16:17:23 <WalterOS2> \tcpip\samples\etc
16:17:27 <KenKrchnr> You want the one in mptn\etc
16:17:38 <WalterOS2> That's what I used.
16:17:55 <Doug> Could you double check please?
16:17:55 <Kris> Doug : done so, got 3 of them.
16:17:57 <WalterOS2> That's the one I always use. :-)
16:18:14 <Doug> Kris - what are the three?
16:18:24 <WarpedOS2> I have to step out for a bit...here is my rough draft of an idea of new Voice format http://warpedos2.homeip.net/TechStuff/newvoice.jpg
16:18:33 <KenKrchnr> Walter, did you enter "206.135.240.98 www.warpdoctor.org" or maybe just use warpdoctor.org?
16:18:37 <WalterOS2> If you plan to use DOS, you'll need \tcpip\dos\etc
16:18:52 <WalterOS2> www.warpdoctor.org
16:21:56 <Doug> Ken - can we change the DNS to point to 206.135.240.98 ?
16:22:20 <KenKrchnr> Walter, can you email me your "hosts" file?
16:22:44 <NielsJ> WarpedOS2: I like the clean look. Maybe a good idea not to have need to scrooling on the opening page. Is that feasible?
16:23:00 <KenKrchnr> Doug, yes, but I don't know how quickly it will make it to all the users.
16:23:12 <WalterOS2> I used 206.135.240.102 . I'm terribly sorry for the confusion I've caused!! :-(
16:23:45 <Doug> That might avoid these types of problems in the future.
16:23:52 <KenKrchnr> Too much time off :-)
16:24:10 <WalterOS2> Could be. :-)
16:24:19 <Doug> That's ok walter _ I could find the right machine either :)
16:24:38 <KenKrchnr> Doug, do you mean just try to change it for meeting times?
16:24:58 <WalterOS2> I've corrected it: let's see what happens.
16:25:00 <Doug> nah - lets just keep it that way.
16:25:04 <WalterOS2> Found it this time!
16:25:18 <Doug> Kris - are you still not getting to the site?
16:26:21 <Kris> Doug: no, but maube I have a bit of a problem, the hosts file iz zero bytes in size now.
16:26:45 <Doug> that is ok. If you haven't put anything in it.
16:27:21 <Kris> Doug: not to my knowledge indeed.
16:27:51 <KenKrchnr> Usually you will only have the loopback address in there.
16:28:01 <Doug> ok Kris: edit the hosts file and add the following line:
16:28:11 <Doug> 206.135.240.98 www.warpdoctor.org
16:28:38 <Doug> then open a command prompt window and try to ping www.warpdoctor.org
16:29:37 <Doug> Then perhaps I can give you a small tour?
16:29:52 <WalterOS2> Great!
16:30:09 <WalterOS2> I love tours
16:30:28 <Kris> Still getting: 64 bytes from 206.135.240.98: icmp_seq=0. time=110. ms
16:30:47 <KenKrchnr> Kris, that's right.
16:31:18 <KenKrchnr> You should be able to connect to http://www.warpdoctor.org/home.html
16:31:21 <Doug> you should now be able to get to http://www.warpdoctor.org/home.html
16:32:10 <Kris> Alas, still "not found"
16:32:32 <Kris> I'm I missing something?
16:32:34 <Doug> Did you terminate your browser and then restart it?
16:32:50 <Doug> You have to shut down the browser after changing the HOSTS file.
16:32:51 <NielsJ> Kris: Did you re-start the browser?
16:33:10 <Kris> Done already so, but will redo, just a minute
16:33:55 <WalterOS2> You have to kill MozTurbo as well, so they tell me.
16:34:07 <Kris> OK! I'm in now!
16:34:52 <WalterOS2> Doug: You've done a great job!
16:35:11 <Kris> Looks nice indeed.
16:35:26 <Doug> Ahhh looks like Kris is golden now.
16:37:48 <WalterOS2> Everyone ready for the tour?
16:37:56 <Kris> Yep
16:38:18 <Doug> hang on - let me see if I can give kris an admin id
16:40:31 <Kris> Doug: What I'm I supposed to do?
16:40:49 <WalterOS2> BTW, Doug, when you said near the beginning of the meeting that you moved www.warpdoctor.org, did you mean that you moved to /home.html or to voice2?
16:41:11 <Doug> I mean that I moved it to voice3 - the machine you are now on.
16:41:26 <WalterOS2> OK, thanks.
16:42:09 <Doug> I actually moved it last week, but we ran into a problem with Apache. So we installed Lotus dominon go web server temporarly until we fix the apache problem
16:42:19 <Doug> or until it get fixed - whichever happens
16:43:01 <Doug> This way we can get something up and running right now and change back later.
16:43:05 <MADecsSMP> What version of Apache is running on VOICE3?
16:43:48 <Doug> V 2.0x
16:44:14 <MADecsSMP> cool. any idea if it is configured to auto-switch log files?
16:44:27 <Doug> no idea - Ken did the setup.
16:44:29 <KenKrchnr> Not now tho', Domino Go Webserver is running right now.
16:44:46 <MADecsSMP> I ask because that has been an ongoing problem with the Apache on VOICE1
16:45:23 <KenKrchnr> That is a problem in rotatelogs. It still is a problem in 2.0.x
16:45:31 <MADecsSMP> :-(
16:45:40 <WalterOS2> Yeah--the log files get humongous
16:45:54 <MADecsSMP> Its a PITA to have to stop Apache and rename all the logs and restart it.
16:46:37 <WalterOS2> Could we use Lotus Domino Go on VOICE2 instead of Apache?
16:46:41 <MADecsSMP> Sorry to hear that 2.0 has the same problem.
16:47:51 <Doug> I think that RS nad perhaps some others perfer Apache. The new site doesn't care which web server is running.
16:48:19 <Doug> The problem we ran into with v 2 of apache is that in some instances it would take VERY long to return information from the server.
16:48:44 <WalterOS2> That's not good. :-(
16:49:03 <WalterOS2> How often did these instances occur?
16:49:06 <Doug> Maybe it is delaying closing the socket. I am not sure but I consistantly timed a 12-15 second delay between when the CGI process ended and the data come back to the browser.
16:49:19 <Doug> every time, in the area where they happen
16:49:44 <WalterOS2> That IS bad.
16:50:24 <Doug> It might be something that I am doing, but rather than try and track it down now, we decided to get the thing running and then attack that problem.
16:51:49 <Doug> anyway - the screen as you can see is divided into a "toolbar" at the top, the folder list on the left and the output area on the right.
16:52:27 <Doug> on the JS version the search is not hooked up yet. It sends the text typed to Google to search our site.
16:52:59 <Doug> There will of couse always be a delay between when new information is entered to our site and Google indexes that information.
16:53:28 <WalterOS2> Which one am I seeing now on my Mozilla 1.4 system?
16:53:30 <Doug> but it is much simpler than trying to build our own search mechanism
16:53:52 <WalterOS2> IOW am I seeing the JS version?
16:53:56 <Doug> The divider line between the left and right area can be repositioned.
16:54:18 <Doug> Yes - you are seeing the JS version. I will show you how to switch to the plug-in version in a second.
16:54:46 <Doug> On the plug-in side and maye Js version the position of the divider line is saved between sessions.
16:55:10 <Doug> It you click on the gear you will get a settings notebook.
16:55:14 <WalterOS2> Thx
16:55:38 <WalterOS2> Cool
16:55:42 <Kris> I)m getting just a blank page
16:55:49 <Doug> The Site Mode page is where you can change from the JS to plug-in version, or specify to use the version seen by WebEx.
16:56:19 <WalterOS2> Kris: have you logged in?
16:56:29 <Doug> Shouldn't matter.
16:56:50 <Doug> When you log in the notebook will have two pages. If you haven't logged in only one page appears.
16:56:53 <Kris> By clicking on the keys? I'm getting a blnk there too
16:57:16 <Doug> which browser are you using?
16:57:30 <Kris> Mozilla 1.4 ga
16:57:51 <Doug> does everyone else get the notebook are do you all get blank?
16:58:15 <WalterOS2> I got the (logon) notebook.
16:58:29 <WalterOS2> Mozilla 1.4
16:59:12 <KenKrchnr> Pages show here.
16:59:39 <Doug> Kris - give me your email address and I will try and figure out what is wrong.
16:59:55 <Doug> The Site Mode page does not show the Plug-in as an option unless it is installed.
17:00:13 <Doug> And I think there is a bug when switching to the non-javascript verions
17:00:14 <Kris> kris.xxxxx@xxxx
17:00:46 <Doug> To switch you select the new mode, click apply and then reload the home page, i.e. reload www.warpdoctor.org/home.html
17:01:22 <Doug> The keys icon gets you the logon page. I believe you all have logon ids.
17:01:37 <Doug> You use the existing User page/tab and type your user id and password.
17:01:46 <Kris> What do you mean by "apply?
17:02:01 <WalterOS2> Ken: The "Plugin" is not sticking.
17:02:05 <Doug> Ahh the notebook showed up.
17:02:18 <Doug> Yeah - I think I have a bug.
17:02:34 <WalterOS2> I've done what you said, and the Settings notebook comes up with no option selected.
17:02:36 <Doug> The APPLY button takes your settings and updates a cookie called WARPDOC.
17:03:16 <Doug> The CGI program warpdoc_menu.exe and HOME.HTML both use that cookie setting to decide which "path" or view mode to send you down.
17:03:30 <Doug> I will have to see why the cookie is not taking.
17:03:55 <Kris> Hmm, if disabled buttons etc. I've just the menu here. Do you know which menu-item it is about?
17:03:56 <Doug> Once you log on the folder list refreshes with the additional folders that you are authorized to see and work with.
17:05:20 <Doug> Can everyone else logon?
17:05:41 <Doug> Kris?
17:05:53 <Kris> I)m at a loss
17:06:01 <NielsJ> Doug: The user ID and password you sent allows viewing of the locked folders.
17:06:09 <Doug> yes
17:06:12 <KenKrchnr> I've logged in.
17:06:15 <WalterOS2> Doug: According to "Preferences" the only cookies stored by the Plugin are called USERID and NOTEBOOKS
17:06:42 <Doug> Ok - I have a bug in setting the WARPDOC cookie. I'll have to check into it.
17:07:32 <WalterOS2> This is probably a good time to end the meeting. It is after 5:00 EDT.
17:07:56 <WalterOS2> We'll carry on with agenda next week.
17:07:58 <Doug> ok
17:08:10 <WalterOS2> Anyone want to adjourn?
17:08:12 <MADecsSMP> What is the IP address for voice3?
17:08:17 <Doug> 206.135.240.98
17:08:35 <MADecsSMP> I get 206.135.240.102 when I ping it
17:08:52 <WalterOS2> Hmmm.
17:08:58 <Doug> Yeah - you have to edit your HOSTS file to point to 206.135.240.98
17:09:05 <Doug> add a line that says:
17:09:10 <Doug> 206.135.240.98 www.warpdoctor.org
17:09:25 <Doug> and then terminate and restart your browser.
17:11:12 <Doug> move to adjourn
17:11:20 <WalterOS2> Thanks, Doug.
17:11:32 <WalterOS2> All in favour, please type Aye.
17:11:34 <Doug> mark - did I send you a user id and password?
17:11:37 <NielsJ> Aye
17:12:13 <Doug> aye
17:12:16 <KenKrchnr> Doug - next time I'll just redirect warpdoctor traffic at the firewall for the duration of the meeting. That may save some time.
17:12:27 <KenKrchnr> Aye
17:12:54 <Doug> ken - ok. that would make it easier.
17:13:24 <WalterOS2> All opposed to adjourning the meeting, please type Nay.
17:14:14 <WalterOS2> Motion is carried. Meeting adjourned.
17:14:23 <KenKrchnr> And everybody please remember to reset your "hosts" file or you'll not be able to access regular warpdoctor now.
17:14:51 <WalterOS2> The next meeting will be next Sunday at 3:00pm EDT.
17:15:29 <KenKrchnr> You can just place a "#" in front of the line to disable it.
17:15:32 <WalterOS2> Please remember you can stay in the channel and chat about whatever you like for as long as you like.