WarpDoctor - General Meeting for 2003-07-27
15:12:38 <WalterOS2> This session of Warpdoctor is now in session.
15:14:37 <WalterOS2> OK
15:14:46 <WalterOS2> A. Old Business
15:15:15 <WalterOS2> 1. Just a quick report on DNS & Domain parameters.
15:16:14 <WalterOS2> a. Names4ever is done, but I haven't haven't received the userid & password from RS yet. :-)
15:16:56 <WalterOS2> b. Network Solutions still has responded to my fax. I'm going to call them tomorrow.
15:17:29 <WalterOS2> That is--unless RS has been dealing with them in the last 2 weeks or so.
15:17:51 <Rat-Salad> Walter, I can make any changes you want
15:17:54 <WalterOS2> has==has not.
15:18:02 <Rat-Salad> just tell me what needs to be changed
15:18:53 <WalterOS2> The way things are now, if you get hit by a bus, then we can't change them.
15:19:14 <WalterOS2> Otherwise I have no problem, since by now the fax is probably dead.
15:20:34 <WalterOS2> We've agreed that several people should have the userid's and passwords to those accounts.
15:20:44 <WalterOS2> So far this hasn't happened.
15:21:07 <Rat-Salad> you should have e-mailed me this week Walter
15:21:30 <WalterOS2> About?
15:21:53 <Rat-Salad> the passwords and ids
15:22:42 <WalterOS2> I'm confused. I don't know the passwords and ids. Are you saying you want me to email you asking for them?
15:23:37 <Rat-Salad> I'm saying you should have reminded me that I needed to send them out to those select few people
15:28:12 <WalterOS2> Done. Consider yourself reminded. :-)
15:29:03 <WalterOS2> Jeremy: you're less than half my age, and you want *ME* to be reminding *YOU*?? <BG>
15:29:32 <Doug> :)
15:30:19 <WalterOS2> You'll understand when you get to be my age. :-)
15:30:54 <Doug> I understand. Oh no.. does that mean....?
15:31:57 <WalterOS2> BTW, I thing we should not renew our contract with Network Solutions, since they clearly are not interesting in serving their customers.
15:32:50 <WalterOS2> OK
15:33:23 <Doug> they just register the domain name(s), right?
15:33:34 <WalterOS2> Item A2a: Problems encountered last time with websites and/or plugin.
15:34:13 <WalterOS2> First let me say to Doug that I couldn't test his suggestions.
15:34:56 <WalterOS2> I decided to switch to Firebird on an experimental basis, which of course meant trashing Mozilla.
15:35:32 <WalterOS2> Doug: I suggest you send your current IP (of the server) with each email.
15:35:57 <Rat-Salad> hehe ok..
15:36:20 <Doug> It appears that my isp forces me to disconnect after 2 days of continuious connection
15:36:26 <WalterOS2> The one I found for last week didn't work for me, so I couldn't even download the new version of wdRexxin.
15:36:37 <WalterOS2> Doug: :-(
15:37:12 <WalterOS2> I've had the same ip for months, but I don't have static ip. At least I'm not paying for it.
15:37:24 <Doug> I will try this week to upload to VOICE2, so that we don't have to deal with the ever-changing IP address.
15:38:37 <KenKrchnr> Doug, what are you going to upload?
15:38:46 <WalterOS2> Doug: I encountered another problem. I uploaded the agenda to warpdoctor.org/public_html/Agendas using ftp, and then couldn't access it using http.
15:39:22 <Doug> Walter - I accessed the agenda from http before the meeting started.
15:39:26 <WalterOS2> However the next day it was there. I figure it had to copied to the mirror first, but it was a bit unnerving. :-)
15:39:48 <WalterOS2> I uploaded the agenda yesterday afternoon.
15:40:00 <KenKrchnr> Walter, warpdoctor.org is still voice1, www.warpdoctor.org is voice2.
15:40:02 <Doug> Ken: database, CGI programs and supporting DLLs, HTML files, create directories for uploading stuff and storing FTP files, etc.
15:40:27 <KenKrchnr> Doug, do you want to run on voice2?
15:40:43 <WalterOS2> Ken: OK, that helps.
15:40:51 <Doug> Not necessarily. I thought all of WD had been moved to VOICE2
15:40:58 <WalterOS2> If I want to see it right away, I should upload it twice.
15:41:19 <Doug> which should I upload to?
15:41:36 <KenKrchnr> Just for testing. We can point back to voice1, or I can put your test stuff on another server.
15:41:40 <Doug> On second thought - yeah I would rather upload to VOICE2
15:42:29 <Doug> because there is a real person I can talk to that can fiddle with the knobs of the machine, if need be.
15:42:48 <WalterOS2> knobs?
15:43:01 <WalterOS2> Sorry--couldn't resist.
15:43:17 <KenKrchnr> Walter, it depends on what our next step is. If we want to do much testing on Dougs new stuff, we may want to just point warpdoctor back to voice1.
15:43:19 <Doug> you know... boot knob, go faster knob, etc.
15:43:37 <WalterOS2> LOL
15:43:49 <KenKrchnr> The testing seems to have gone very well. At least I haven't seen nor heard of any problems.
15:43:54 <Doug> The disadvantage of testing on VOICE1 is that VOICE1 is still running apache v 1.3.x isn't it?
15:44:22 <WalterOS2> Doug: You sound like Tom Paris on ST: Voyager. :-)
15:44:25 <KenKrchnr> Yes, what I meant was to revert warpdoctor to voice1, and use voice2 for testing.
15:44:38 <Doug> or, I can just send out the latest IP address de juer.
15:44:53 <Doug> and we can keep it on my machine for a while.
15:45:20 <WalterOS2> I don't want to rush testing. I think publishing the ip is probably the best idea.
15:46:13 <KenKrchnr> I can also assign another ip and put test stuff on another server. Not voice2, another of my servers here.
15:47:13 <WalterOS2> Doug, Ken: Here's an idea.
15:48:41 <WalterOS2> How about a port number, say 88, so that www.warpdoctor.org:88 would go to page which would redirect to the correct ip for the day?
15:49:22 <WalterOS2> Doug would just have to make sure the redirect page was updated regularly which shouldn't be hard to do.
15:50:25 <Doug> I'm not sure that would work, although it is a good idea.
15:50:56 <WalterOS2> I'm just curious, why not?
15:50:58 <Doug> Because of the hardcoded reference in some places to www.warpdoctor.org
15:51:18 <WalterOS2> Ah.
15:51:42 <Doug> Those pages/linkes/etc with the hardcoded reference would go back to the wrong machine.
15:52:00 <WalterOS2> Is there some way to ease that restriction and still maintain the required security?
15:52:15 <WalterOS2> restriction=hardcoded URL
15:52:46 <Doug> Ken - how much trouble would it be to drag out one of your machines and setup apache, ftpd and a db2 client?
15:52:59 <Doug> Walter: let me think about that.
15:53:13 <KenKrchnr> No problem at all, I still have all that on the old mirror machine.
15:54:22 <KenKrchnr> Or, we can just conclude the test of warpdoctor on voice2, and use that.
15:54:33 <Doug> If ken is agreeable to that, it might be the better way. If for no other reason than it separates the development changes from the testing or "offical" testing site.
15:55:16 <Doug> is voice2 running voice?
15:55:28 <WalterOS2> Before we decide to conclude the testing of warpdoctor,
15:55:32 <KenKrchnr> No, only www.warpdoctor.org
15:56:05 <WalterOS2> we need to be sure that at least the problems we uncovered last week have been resolved.
15:56:25 <KenKrchnr> Which was??
15:56:29 <WalterOS2> Doug: Where is the latest version the the plugin?
15:56:47 <Doug> How much traffic does VOICE2 get, meaning how much traffic does the current WD site get?
15:57:11 <KenKrchnr> Not very much. Transferred 150M last week.
15:57:29 <WalterOS2> I had some problems, and needed Doug to change wdRexxin.
15:57:46 <KenKrchnr> Ahhh, that's a different test :-)
15:57:48 <Doug> Who is downloading 150M of stuff from WD? I wonder?
15:57:56 <WalterOS2> Second: Are we going to support Firebird at this point?
15:58:07 <KenKrchnr> Probably mostly me testing ;-)
15:58:33 <Rat-Salad> I don't see any reason why FireBird wouldn't work
15:58:37 <Doug> walter - I think I put the latest version on VOICE2, but let me upload it again to be sure.
15:58:57 <WalterOS2> Where on VOICE2?
15:59:12 <KenKrchnr> ftp://www.warpdoctor.org
15:59:14 <Doug> If firebird is being used - and I have now heard of 2 people using it - we should probably support it.
15:59:37 <Doug> Walter - in the directory you are put in when you FTP into www.warpdoctor.org.
15:59:42 <KenKrchnr> That puts you in anonymous, the file is there.
15:59:52 <Doug> But let me re-upload again and make sure.
15:59:57 <WalterOS2> Rat-Salad: I believe Firebird is limited in its plugin support. I'm no expert, but that's what the FAQ's suggest.
16:00:29 <WalterOS2> I think more and more people will use it.
16:00:49 <Doug> I will download Firebird, install it, and modify the installation program to find FireBird, if necessary.
16:00:49 <WalterOS2> It's rough around the edges, but it really rocks.
16:00:55 <WalterOS2> And it supports downloading from the IBM ftp. sites.
16:01:25 <Doug> Ken - if there aren't many people using WD right now - other than you - why not just put it on VOICE2. If there really are some users, then the separate machine might be better.
16:02:43 <KenKrchnr> I think that would be fine. We can just put warpdoctor back top voice1, it was only on voice2 for testing 'til you were ready to work on the db stuff.
16:03:27 <WalterOS2> Sounds good to me.
16:03:44 <KenKrchnr> It should only take a couple of hours for most nameservers to go back.
16:04:04 <WalterOS2> Is Mark still here?
16:04:13 <MADodel> yes
16:04:23 <KenKrchnr> And I conclude that the test was a success anyway ;-)
16:04:29 <WalterOS2> Mark, are you still using Firebird?
16:04:45 <KenKrchnr> I have it running right now.
16:04:53 <KenKrchnr> (Firebird)
16:05:08 <MADodel> YEs. I've had problems accessing cookie sites with Mozilla 1.4, so I still mostly use Firebird
16:05:49 <WalterOS2> I love its pop-up killer.
16:05:55 <KenKrchnr> 1.4 also has some strangeness with its caching.
16:05:58 <WalterOS2> But I mostly like its speed.
16:06:12 <Doug> I have noticed some problems with cookies and Mozilla v 1.4 also. I have had to treat cookies 2 different ways depending on whether running v 1.4 or not.
16:06:42 <Doug> ah oh. we may be in trouble here.
16:06:45 <WalterOS2> There are some problems with the bookmarks. If you have a second copy of FB running the BM on the 2nd copy won't work.
16:06:58 <Doug> Do you have it set to kill all pop-ups?
16:07:23 <WalterOS2> Yep.
16:07:43 <WalterOS2> It comes that way by default, and I've had a need to change it.
16:08:02 <WalterOS2> Will that cause a problem with the plugin?
16:08:12 <WalterOS2> had=had not
16:09:11 <Doug> I think it will cause a problem with the site. I wil have to test it. there are a number of times that we open a separate window - to get the logon id and password for instance - and i have been afraid that I might run into the anti-popup police
16:09:25 <KenKrchnr> Firebird with pop-up killer worked with the plugin last week when I tried it.
16:09:29 <WalterOS2> :-)
16:09:41 <WalterOS2> That's good.
16:09:59 <WalterOS2> BTW, Doug, where have you uploaded the plugin?
16:10:17 <Doug> ACtually, the plug-in will work ok, because the plug-in creates its own "pop-up" windows. Its the JS version that will have problems.
16:10:33 <Doug> because it creates new browser window(s)
16:11:09 <Doug> I'll put it on voice2 by the end of the meeting.
16:11:33 <KenKrchnr> I can't remember if I tried logons when I tried the JS version. Hmmm.
16:12:18 <Doug> probably not, because the logon required you to have modified the HOSTS file. Something in the logon change probably refers to www.warpdoctor.org explicity.
16:12:31 <Doug> change = chain
16:13:55 <WalterOS2> OK, let's move on.
16:14:13 <WalterOS2> A2b. Solutions.
16:14:26 <WalterOS2> I think we've basically covered that.
16:14:57 <WalterOS2> Item A2c. What further testing is required?
16:15:20 <WalterOS2> Doug, what do you need to do?
16:16:08 <Doug> I need to finish some content edit/input screens, see if I can make compression work, and make some modifications to the JS version.
16:16:52 <Doug> The compression factor affects how the pages are generated. If I can't get compression to work, the pages are easier to generate
16:17:09 <Doug> If I get compression to work, I will have to modify the page generation code.
16:18:15 <WalterOS2> Ken, anything you'd like to add?
16:18:58 <KenKrchnr> Not really, whenever Doug's ready, we'll give it a go.
16:19:11 <WalterOS2> OK.
16:19:35 <WalterOS2> Item A2d. Inputing test data
16:19:51 <WalterOS2> How far are we away from that, do you think?
16:20:48 <Doug> I'm not a good person to ask because I have been cronically wrong, but I think real soon.
16:21:46 <WalterOS2> OK, accepted with several grains of salt. :-)
16:22:01 <Doug> you may need a whole block
16:22:11 <WalterOS2> LOL
16:22:40 <WalterOS2> Item B New Business
16:22:59 <WalterOS2> 1. Current Status DB2 Engine, etc.
16:23:31 <WalterOS2> Doug, can you summarize where we stand on that?
16:23:51 <WalterOS2> I don't know how that relates to what we're doing now. :-(
16:24:13 <Doug> unless testing uncovers some bugs that need to be fixed, we are done with that.
16:24:24 <WalterOS2> A simple block diagram would be nice.
16:24:27 <WalterOS2> :-)
16:24:34 <WalterOS2> Again.
16:24:53 <Doug> ok
16:25:11 <WalterOS2> Thx
16:25:26 <Doug> browser->plug-in->||server||->cgi program->connection manager->DB2
16:25:49 <Doug> The ||SERVER|| indicates on the server
16:25:50 <WalterOS2> OK, thanks. :-)
16:25:51 <Doug> the return is:
16:26:07 <Doug> DB2 -> connection manager-> web server->plug-in
16:26:21 <Doug> If using JS, remove Plug-in from diagram
16:26:58 <wdl> Doug: "JS" is...?
16:27:07 <WalterOS2> Javascript
16:27:40 <wdl> Aargh! Should known. :O
16:27:45 <Doug> Sorry - JavaScript version. When using the javascript version the browser calls the CGI programs directly. When using the plug-in, the plug-in calls the CGI programs on the server.
16:27:46 <WalterOS2> See glossary at end of chapter. :-)
16:29:11 <WalterOS2> Item B1a: So, what is the next step, in view of the above diagram?
16:29:54 <Doug> let me expand the dialog a bit
16:30:05 <WalterOS2> Go ahead.
16:30:41 <Doug> When I say plug-in, what I really mean is the program running under the direction of the plug-in
16:31:02 <Doug> Although I am making minor changes to the plug-in as I go to accomodate the programs needs.
16:31:29 <Doug> There are 4 DrRexx programs that are run by the plug-in to produce the site:
16:31:46 <Doug> wdEditor - handles the left side, i.e. the folders and their processing.
16:32:13 <Doug> wdToolbar - handles the toolbar at the top of the page, along with the drag/drop functions associated with the icons.
16:33:02 <Doug> wdContent - displays content in the right side when selecting a folder with content. That is used so that an icon for an item of content can be dragged and dropped, as appropriate
16:33:24 <Doug> and lastly wdEditCnt - which provides all the input/edit screens for entering and changing content.
16:33:52 <Doug> Most of the work right now in in the last program, the one that provides the screens for input/edit
16:34:36 <Doug> lets see, what as the question again??
16:34:46 <Rat-Salad> I need to run you all... if anyone has any ideas for os2voice.org please let me know
16:35:14 <Doug> oh next step. finish the last two DrRexx programs. That is the main part.
16:35:27 <WalterOS2> It sounds like the whole Warpdoctor is dynamic, in that it doesn't "come into existence" untill a plugin-enabled browser accesses it. Is that roughly what's happening?
16:35:49 <Doug> when using the plug-in version yes.
16:36:24 <WalterOS2> OK, how does a JS-browser start the ball rolling?
16:36:26 <Doug> When using the JS version, a CGI program generates a JS program/CSS-HTML that provides the folder stuff on the left side
16:37:20 <WalterOS2> I think I see. (I don't understand CSS, but I know what they do; that's the reason for my hesitation.)
16:37:21 <Doug> right now, when the file HOME.HTML is accessed, a JS program in the form checks whether the plug-in is installed in the browser or not. If it is, then HOME.HTML starts the user down the plug-in path.
16:37:54 <Doug> If the plug-in is not installed, then the JS path is started. If the JS program does not execute, then the non-JS path is started.
16:38:17 <WalterOS2> Very slick.
16:38:50 <WalterOS2> Your description has really helped me understand what's going on. I appreciate it.
16:39:01 <Doug> I plan to eliminate that file/page when I figure out how to serve specific pages in apache based on browser detection. It will save having to look at the WARPDOCTOR IS IN page.
16:39:36 <Doug> save the user from having to look at that page, that is.
16:40:27 <Doug> If apache has browser detection. I assume that it does.
16:40:59 <KenKrchnr> Apache has browser detection.
16:41:04 <WalterOS2> It does.
16:41:22 <WalterOS2> I've actually used it once. :-)
16:41:23 <Doug> good - then we can speed up the start-up process some.
16:42:45 <WalterOS2> Doug: what web server are you using?
16:43:12 <Doug> I am now using Lotus Domino Go web server.
16:43:36 <WalterOS2> Is that readily available or not?
16:44:08 <Doug> I think so. It is bundled with WSeB,and used to be available for download and free use.
16:44:35 <Doug> The free use is only if you are not using the secure features. If you want to use the secure features you have to pay for it.
16:44:57 <WalterOS2> Do you remember where you can download it from?
16:45:32 <WalterOS2> Don't worry about it. I'll email you "after-class". :-)
16:45:41 <Doug> No, but I will email you a copy if you want it.
16:45:51 <WalterOS2> OK, thanks.
16:46:08 <WalterOS2> I've gotten a bit OT.
16:46:44 <WalterOS2> Back to the Agenda, I've deleted B1b: What about Phase 1.
16:47:02 <WalterOS2> I don't want to lay to much on Doug at once. :-)
16:47:10 <WalterOS2> to=too
16:47:31 <Doug> Phase 1 will be when we decide that what is loaded on VOICE2 is ready to go public.
16:47:44 <WalterOS2> B2: Status of Website.
16:47:46 <Doug> (or rather, what will be loaded on VOICE2)
16:48:33 <KenKrchnr> This goes back to what we were talking about before.
16:48:35 <WalterOS2> Thx. I'll see that you get extra credit. <g>
16:49:14 <WalterOS2> Ken: what does?
16:49:16 <KenKrchnr> Voice2 is ready to go as far as I can tell.
16:50:18 <KenKrchnr> All the services I know of on voice1 are running on voice2, just as mirrors or backup.
16:50:25 <WalterOS2> Jeremy has gone, but he is still looking for ideas on the new face to the website.
16:50:40 <WalterOS2> Ken: OK, thanks.
16:51:28 <MADodel> It would be nice if we had a REXX or PHP ability like os2.org to post news. On either os2voice.org or Warpdoctor.org
16:52:52 <WalterOS2> What's preventing us: the software or personnel?
16:53:01 <MADodel> SOmeone able to do it
16:53:16 <KenKrchnr> There are a number of ways to do that, somebody just needs to implement one. :)
16:53:34 <WalterOS2> Ah. Skilled personnel. :-)
16:54:01 <Doug> that would be very easy to add to WD, but does it make sense to have news on WD?
16:54:24 <KenKrchnr> I nominate Doug, that would be a perfect extension to the database paradigm.
16:54:41 <WalterOS2> Mark: Are you thinking of a replacement for VOICE: News or an addition to it?
16:55:08 <MADodel> Look at the os2world.com votes. Not one nomination for VOICE or WarpDoctor, yet os2.org which is barely alive got several. We have all the content, but no one checks our sites daily. :-(
16:55:45 <MADodel> WalterOS2: The NEws list is for people that want mail, but some people just like to check a website every day.
16:55:59 <WalterOS2> I see.
16:56:01 <MADodel> I'd like to see the News list feed the web site
16:57:04 <WalterOS2> That could be an addition to our web site, and therefore something Jeremy could implement.
16:58:14 <MADodel> SOmething to consider anyway
16:58:32 <MADodel> It would bring more people to the website on a regular basis.
17:00:14 <wdl> Mark: And it would help make VOICE *relevant* to users...
17:00:15 <WalterOS2> OK, I appoint me to pass that idea along to RS.
17:01:59 <MADodel> sounds good
17:03:01 <WalterOS2> Well, it's about time to quit, and I've have to quit on time to clean up down here so my wife can clean my office.
17:03:18 <WalterOS2> We're having relatives for the next two weeks. :-(
17:03:30 <WalterOS2> Actually, I like these people.
17:03:41 <Doug> you know what ben franklin said.
17:03:53 <WalterOS2> So, anyone want to move we adjourn?
17:04:13 <Doug> move to adjourn
17:04:22 <WalterOS2> What did ben franklin say?
17:05:23 <WalterOS2> All in favour of adjourning the meeting, please type Aye.
17:05:29 <Doug> fish and visitors smell after three days
17:05:31 <Doug> aye
17:05:44 <KenKrchnr> Aye
17:06:59 <WalterOS2> All opposed to adjourning this meeting, please type Nay
17:07:42 <WalterOS2> Motion is carried. Meeting is adjourned.
17:07:50 <WalterOS2> The WD meeting for next week is canceled.
17:08:46 <WalterOS2> I'll send out reminder notices when the time is nearer.
17:09:17 <WalterOS2> Goodbye everyone.