07-13-03 15:05:02 This meeting Warpdoctor is now in session. 07-13-03 15:05:55 The agenda is at http://www.warpdoctor.org/agendas/warpdoc_2003-07-13.html 07-13-03 15:08:25 Things are finally back to normal around here. My wife's legs are healing really well, the bathroom remodelling is almost done, and my sister is on her back to Vancouver. 07-13-03 15:08:40 I feel my sanity returning. :-) 07-13-03 15:08:55 Boy - it sounds like you had a lot going on all at once. 07-13-03 15:09:14 You could say that. 07-13-03 15:09:58 So hopefully the WD meetings can get back on schedule as well. :-) 07-13-03 15:10:28 Agenda Item A 07-13-03 15:10:45 1. Updating HCL. 07-13-03 15:11:08 Where are we on the Hardware Compatibility List? 07-13-03 15:11:20 Bill, Gord? 07-13-03 15:11:44 Last I heard Jeremy had the file with the input screen. 07-13-03 15:12:13 I would say that HCL is basically on hold until we get the site released. 07-13-03 15:12:45 Can we start inputting data now, or does that have to wait? 07-13-03 15:12:49 No activity on my part. Waiting... for what? 07-13-03 15:13:04 We have to wait. 07-13-03 15:13:58 OK. 07-13-03 15:14:31 I sent out a small doc that describes the organization of the content on the site 07-13-03 15:14:32 OK. Doug, what do you mean by "getting the site released? 07-13-03 15:15:17 Doug: When did you send out the doc? 07-13-03 15:15:31 Just a few minutes ago. 07-13-03 15:15:36 OK. 07-13-03 15:16:00 Agenda items B 1,2 & 3 are really about this. Should we jump to those? 07-13-03 15:16:32 One thing first. 07-13-03 15:17:47 I am sorry to mention that with all that's been happening around here, I haven't got the DNS stuff changed yet. Hopefully I'll get the documents sent off this week. 07-13-03 15:18:15 Now we can go to 07-13-03 15:18:25 Ummm, Jeremy got some of them changed ;-) 07-13-03 15:18:26 Agenda Item B1 07-13-03 15:18:45 Ken: which ones are left? 07-13-03 15:19:22 The only thing he didn't get was warpstock.org. Mark said that was handled elsewhere. 07-13-03 15:20:29 OK, that's great. As long as it got done. Whose got the password and userid besides him? 07-13-03 15:20:38 He's got the nameservers changed, not any contacts. I don't know who he got passwords from. 07-13-03 15:21:47 OK, I didn't make myself clear. It was the contacts I was supposed to change and didn't and hope to change this week. 07-13-03 15:24:59 From last week's log: 07-13-03 15:25:06 06-29-03 16:55:01 The motion is that:Walter contact network solutions, and that he change the tech contact name to a pseudo 07-13-03 15:25:06 06-29-03 16:55:02 name (by whatever means are necessary), and that he disseminate the name and password to those that the 07-13-03 15:25:06 06-29-03 16:55:02 voice deems needs to know, plus to ken and rs 07-13-03 15:25:06 06-29-03 16:55:02 for all domain names that pertain to voice or waprdoctor 07-13-03 15:26:35 This hasn't been done yet because of all the activity at my house over the past two weeks. I hope everything is clear now. :-) 07-13-03 15:26:58 Yep. 07-13-03 15:27:06 Good. 07-13-03 15:27:15 :-) 07-13-03 15:27:49 I'll do my best to get the necessary documents faxed to NS this week. 07-13-03 15:29:00 If Jeremy got someone's password it may not be necessary. With the right password it can just be changed online. 07-13-03 15:29:13 Now Agenda B1: 07-13-03 15:29:34 Doug, you had something to say under this heading..? 07-13-03 15:30:07 I think we are very close to having a site that people can start entering information in. 07-13-03 15:30:29 I have spent most of this last week squishing bugs. Hopefully I have found most of them 07-13-03 15:30:37 What I would like to do is: 07-13-03 15:31:03 1) put up the site on my server first. for one week running Lotus Domino go web server 07-13-03 15:31:15 2) then switch to Apache v 2 on my server for a week 07-13-03 15:31:28 3) then move the site to VOICE2 07-13-03 15:32:07 People could start entering data in the first week. But I advise not making the site "public" until it is transferred to VOICE2 07-13-03 15:32:46 What kind of data could we enter? 07-13-03 15:33:04 I should say, what kind of transactions? 07-13-03 15:33:16 Anything. You can add content (hcl, html, device drivers, etc.) and alter, add, delete folders 07-13-03 15:33:45 What about ftp? 07-13-03 15:34:13 Yes - I will have FTP running. It has to to handle uploading files, etc. 07-13-03 15:34:35 The doc I just sent out explains about the folders and content inside the folders. 07-13-03 15:34:46 well - hopefully it explains it. 07-13-03 15:34:51 I'm a little confused. Are you talking about adding stuff to the database or to VOICE? 07-13-03 15:35:24 Everything - well almost everything - in Warpdoctor is in the database. 07-13-03 15:35:52 There are a few small HTML files and graphics files that will remain as files, because they need to, or it makes sense for them to remain as files 07-13-03 15:36:00 But all the screens you will see come from the database 07-13-03 15:36:12 ergo - all data entry/updating is done to the database. 07-13-03 15:37:56 For example - the folder tree that you see in the figures in the document. For Javascript enbabled browsers that is a datastream (about 60k uncompressed) generated from the CGI programs from the FOLDERS table in the database. 07-13-03 15:39:35 Doug: It sounds as though you've expanded the original idea of what was going into the Database--not that I'm opposed to it. Is this correct? 07-13-03 15:39:50 When using the plug-in that folder tree is actually an OS/2 container that appears in the page as an embedded plug-in. The plug-in app retreives the FOLDERS data from the database and builds the container contents real-time 07-13-03 15:40:39 I don't that I expanded it so much. It was pretty much all encompassing to begin with 07-13-03 15:40:46 BTW, I still don't have the document you sent. 07-13-03 15:41:02 OK. 07-13-03 15:41:25 I got my copy from warpdoctor@os2voice.org right after the meeting started. Did anyone else get the doc? 07-13-03 15:41:53 My original worry when we started this was that putting EVERYTHING in the database would slow down the site considerably 07-13-03 15:42:07 But with the connection manager it performs quite nicely. 07-13-03 15:42:27 No doc here yet. 07-13-03 15:42:56 Should I send it again. or perhaps directly to the attendees of the meeting? 07-13-03 15:43:22 As long as it works, and does what we want, I'll be happy. 07-13-03 15:43:44 I hope so. I hope everyone is happy. 07-13-03 15:44:00 Directly to the attendees might be a good idea. 07-13-03 15:44:17 I know that it has taken a LONG time, but I think we will all be pleased with the site shortly. 07-13-03 15:44:34 OK - l'll send to emails I have first, then get everyone else's 07-13-03 15:44:53 It's nice to know there's light at the end of the tunnel. :-) 07-13-03 15:47:41 This isn't on the agenda, but since Doug brought it up, we need to talk about it. 07-13-03 15:48:07 Ken, WDL and HOSS: please send me your email address in private chat, and I will send out the doc 07-13-03 15:49:35 The last time we tried to convert our server to another system, the result was an unmitigated disaster. That has really scared me, and I want to avoid any possibility of that happening again. 07-13-03 15:50:25 It sounds like Doug's plan is using a parallel approach, which is good. 07-13-03 15:50:27 VOICE2 is already running Apache v 2 I believe. 07-13-03 15:50:35 Ken? 07-13-03 15:50:44 Voice2 is running 2.0.46 07-13-03 15:50:57 And changing WD shouldn' t impact VOICE, unless it trashes the entire machine 07-13-03 15:51:45 OK, Doug when did you say you wanted to start up Warpdoctor on your machine? 07-13-03 15:52:10 Chat? 07-13-03 15:52:12 Hopefully this coming weekend 07-13-03 15:53:54 Not sure I'm doing this right. Your last to me in yellow color-name. Is the groups seeing this?? 07-13-03 15:53:57 That will be a parallel site, right? 07-13-03 15:54:22 wdl - type /msg doug my email is blahblahblah 07-13-03 15:55:29 Yes. Unfortunately my site is normal DSL, so my upload - your download - will be about 57K 07-13-03 15:55:56 How do you turn-OFF "chat"?? 07-13-03 15:56:20 On mine - it is a separate window. I just close that window. 07-13-03 15:56:35 Aaaargh! Lost in cyber-land - I think... 07-13-03 15:56:39 Ok = document is sent out. Hopefully you will all get it shortly 07-13-03 15:56:59 Doug: So it will be a separate URL. Do you know what that will be? 07-13-03 15:57:00 wdl - we see you :) 07-13-03 15:57:32 Hmmm... I'll see how it goes. 07-13-03 15:57:44 I will send you all an email with the IP address and instructions on changing your HOSTS file. 07-13-03 15:58:12 You will have to edit the HOSTS file and make or change the entry to WWW.WARPDOCTOR.ORG while testing. 07-13-03 15:58:36 I get a new ip address every time I connect. So I will connect, send the email, and not disconnect to a week. 07-13-03 15:58:52 for a week. If they will let me. 07-13-03 16:00:38 Doug, how much trouble is it to change the page name? (on your end) 07-13-03 16:01:05 Main page you mean? 07-13-03 16:01:31 Yes, you had said the page name was hard-coded. 07-13-03 16:01:58 Doug: Got the email. 07-13-03 16:02:07 right now the entry page is called HOME.HTML. It can be called anything. 07-13-03 16:02:18 If it's not too much to change it, we can add a dns entry so people don't have to change their hosts file. 07-13-03 16:02:34 It checks the type of browser and the settings of the cookie to determine which path or view mode to present to the user. 07-13-03 16:03:02 Unfortunately - the dns must be www.warpdoctor.org 07-13-03 16:03:07 Like instead of www.warpdoctor.org, using wd.warpdoctor.org. 07-13-03 16:03:54 The reasons are that it is hard coded in a couple of places, and the system requires a fully qualified URL in order to pass its security 07-13-03 16:04:38 so there are some places where the full URL is hard coded. The security is to prevent any chance of a Rexx program from another site running in the rexx plug-in. 07-13-03 16:05:28 Is the hard-coding in the Rexx plug-in? 07-13-03 16:06:08 Yes - if you are using Javascript or a dumb browser everything is relative. Meaning that the entry DNS can be anything 07-13-03 16:06:38 Thx for clarifying that. :-) 07-13-03 16:07:13 when I presented the RExx plug-in at warpstock last year there were some concerns expressed over security. 07-13-03 16:07:25 BTW, I got your document. Looks very nice. 07-13-03 16:07:37 So the plug-in now will not run a program unless the program is spelled out in a fully qualified URL. 07-13-03 16:08:08 and that fully qualified URL must appear in a list of "approved" sites, before the plug-in will start the program. 07-13-03 16:08:54 The plug-in install package comes with the urls of http://www.warpdoctor.org, ftp://www.warpdoctor.org and file:// in the approved list 07-13-03 16:11:49 Doug: Do you have anything to let us know about or that you want to discuss? 07-13-03 16:12:02 not right now 07-13-03 16:13:26 Is there anything you have get done before you can startup warpdoctor next week on your server? 07-13-03 16:13:42 yeah 07-13-03 16:13:51 next weekend, I mean. 07-13-03 16:14:16 1) I have to generate a different Javascript file for Netscape v 4.x browsers - they cannot use the CSS features of the current one 07-13-03 16:14:28 2) have to add a couple of screesn for data input 07-13-03 16:15:07 3) I want to make a way for Mozilla browsers to cache the DrRexx programs used by the plug-in. Netscape caches them correctly by Mozilla doesn't 07-13-03 16:15:23 Please let me know when everythings ready to go and before you startup the alternate WD. 07-13-03 16:15:33 ok 07-13-03 16:16:08 I am anticipating that we will have a pretty small audience for the first 2 weeks 07-13-03 16:16:29 like prehaps the attendess of these meetings, for example. 07-13-03 16:17:44 Mozilla handles the FTP part slightly differently than Netscape does. I had to change my FTP server to Peter's to get it to work with both Mozilla and Netscape 07-13-03 16:17:51 have you tried Mozilla Firebird .06 it seems to work best 07-13-03 16:18:10 No. 07-13-03 16:18:49 Doug: Thanks. 07-13-03 16:19:37 I like mozilla, I use mozilla, but in many ways it is pretty crappy 07-13-03 16:19:57 They don't seem to care too much about being compatible with Netscape. 07-13-03 16:21:05 In their defense, they are more worried about being able to view all the MS crap generated pages. 07-13-03 16:21:54 ken - true. And they do a good job of handling all the new fangled HTML/CSS stuff. 07-13-03 16:22:19 But their plug-in implementation is seriously broken. And their FTP stuff is slightly off. And their caching is terrible. 07-13-03 16:23:35 Looking at the Agenda, again, there isn't much more we can do, especially since Jeremy isn't here. 07-13-03 16:24:53 Does anyone have anything they want to discuss? 07-13-03 16:25:34 Jeremy has moved the dns entries to dnsmadeeasy. 07-13-03 16:26:13 Has anybody had any problem accessing any voice sites for the past day or so? 07-13-03 16:27:36 just de.os2voice.org, and I was able to get to that this morning, but not now. 07-13-03 16:27:45 If not, the next step would be to point dns to a site on voice2. 07-13-03 16:27:54 Not me. 07-13-03 16:28:03 Mark, does your nslookup give you an answer now? 07-13-03 16:28:17 let me try 07-13-03 16:28:39 hey it works now. 07-13-03 16:28:46 Sounds good. 07-13-03 16:29:49 For the next stage, I'd recommend pointing dns for warpdoctor to voice2. Try that before a more active page. 07-13-03 16:31:02 (voice2 will [probably] be offline for a few hours next Saturday while I change our firewall) 07-13-03 16:32:20 And I still need some userid/passwords for dtoc (Mark - can you try yours at xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:xxx) 07-13-03 16:33:10 That would be all to finish voice2 (that I know of) 07-13-03 16:33:14 I'll try it now 07-13-03 16:34:53 Everybody who has ftp access to voice1 should already be setup on voice2. 07-13-03 16:35:36 And mail and ssh as well should be OK. 07-13-03 16:35:47 Ken: DTOC gets in, but then Mozilla closes down on me. At least the logon/password works 07-13-03 16:36:33 Mozilla uses java version too high for dtoc. I found that out. But Comm 4.61 works. 07-13-03 16:36:38 Known bug to my knowlegde... 07-13-03 16:36:42 DTOC 5 works... 07-13-03 16:36:45 with mozilla 07-13-03 16:36:52 I test the trial version.... 07-13-03 16:37:00 But where can you buy it ? 07-13-03 16:37:05 I think only via IBM Japan.... 07-13-03 16:39:08 Ken: If you anticipate an outage, you should probably make an announcement in VOICE NEWS. 07-13-03 16:39:48 If it would have an impact, but seeing as how it's not online yet.... 07-13-03 16:41:21 I think ECS does have DTOC included 07-13-03 16:41:48 Yes, but only versions 3 and 4 07-13-03 16:41:55 Yes, that's what's on voice2. I picked up a copy of 1.1 for it. 07-13-03 16:42:10 (eCS 1.1 that is) 07-13-03 16:42:25 Just the DTOC alone is worth the purchase of eCS 1.1 :-) 07-13-03 16:43:00 Kind of silly to have a new version available and not let anyone have it. But of course it doesn't surprise me. 07-13-03 16:43:21 You mean we don't make it available... 07-13-03 16:43:33 no IBM 07-13-03 16:43:43 Well Bob did his best... 07-13-03 16:43:53 But it was quite a hunt to find it... 07-13-03 16:44:08 Is 5 Japanese only? 07-13-03 16:44:17 There is an English version... 07-13-03 16:45:29 When are you starting to sell it? 07-13-03 16:45:59 who ? 07-13-03 16:46:11 Mensys! 07-13-03 16:46:37 I'm not certain 07-13-03 16:46:40 we may never sell it... 07-13-03 16:47:13 have you guys ever used VNC? 07-13-03 16:47:24 That is insecure as hell :-) 07-13-03 16:47:40 Only use it on internal lans! 07-13-03 16:48:40 ah oh - didn't know that. 07-13-03 16:50:07 I use it from OS/2 to get to the Win95 system running my phone system. It works pretty well and is very easy to setup 07-13-03 16:50:24 Well thats still rather secure 07-13-03 16:50:43 as long as you don't use it on a system directly connetced to the internet with a fixed IP address 07-13-03 16:50:48 BTW DTOC on 5 ftp://ftp.ibm.co.jp/pub/pspj/dtoc/eval5e 07-13-03 16:50:50 trial version 07-13-03 16:51:05 Any limit on the eval version? 07-13-03 16:51:14 Doug: What do you use to create your .pdf files that you send us occasionally? 07-13-03 16:51:19 Is the big improvement that it runs in Mozilla? 07-13-03 16:51:20 I thought it expired after 30 days 07-13-03 16:51:39 I use Arobat v 3.01 - because it handles the colors better than Ghostview 07-13-03 16:51:54 Thanks. 07-13-03 16:52:13 Acrobat distiller v 3.01 btw will run on OS/2. 07-13-03 16:52:35 Where can you get it? 07-13-03 16:53:11 I got mine bundled in framemaker version 5. I wonder if you can get it on ebay. 07-13-03 16:53:58 Thx 07-13-03 16:54:15 acrobat v 3.01 is a win32S product. It claims that it wants a later version of Win32s than the v 1.25 that comes with OS/2 07-13-03 16:55:03 But like most Win32S stuff, it will run fine with v 1.25. 07-13-03 16:56:36 If you don't have colors in the document, ghostview does a pretty good job of converting the document. GV also compresses the PDF pages. 07-13-03 16:57:55 Thanks for the info. :-) 07-13-03 17:06:52 move to adjorn 07-13-03 17:07:20 The meeting is adjourned.