05-04-103 12:21:06 <WalterOS2> This meeting of Warpdoctor is now in session.
05-04-103 12:21:41 <WalterOS2> The agenda can be found at http://www.warpdoctor.org/agendas/warpdoc_2003-05-04.html .
05-04-103 12:26:11 <WalterOS2> Doug emailed that me that he's going to a football game, so I guess we can all go home. :-)
05-04-103 12:26:46 <WalterOS2> Not really: It just hit me that a large part of the agenda involved him.
05-04-103 12:29:19 <WalterOS2> STATUS REPORT
05-04-103 12:29:45 <WalterOS2> B1Aii: Input Form
05-04-103 12:30:18 <WalterOS2> Bill, did you get those changes made, and is there some place we can look at them?
05-04-103 12:31:46 <wdl> WalterOS2: Yes.  Http://pws.prserv.net/wdl/hcl/input.html   ...I think.
05-04-103 12:34:07 <Rat-Salad> layout is a bit broken, but we can fix that :)
05-04-103 12:34:09 <wdl> Right of the browser:   http://pws.prserv.net/wdl/hcl/input.html
05-04-103 12:34:26 <wdl> "of" = "off"
05-04-103 12:35:11 <wdl> What you see is all I had.  No real access to the GIFs, etc.  I swiped a few.  Couldn't find/get the rest.
05-04-103 12:35:45 <wdl> The pages themselves are completeenough.  What *was* there - as links - is retained.  
05-04-103 12:36:03 <wdl> Should work on whatever it/they came from originally.
05-04-103 12:36:56 <wdl> And the side bars come from another page, I think.  Input et al are embedded in the other.
05-04-103 12:37:48 <wdl> Anyway, I can add/subtract whatever onyone wants.  Elsewise -- whoever needs it can pluck it off my site.
05-04-103 12:38:05 <wdl> Or I'll zip it up and ship to whoever...
05-04-103 12:39:50 <WalterOS2> wdl: This is probably a dumb question, but what is that "broken-looking" stuff at the bottom on the corners?
05-04-103 12:40:04 <Sector> Missing parts
05-04-103 12:40:26 <WalterOS2> OK, thx.
05-04-103 12:40:40 <wdl> WalterOS2:  Those are GIFs called out by the HTML.  In a subdirectory "images".
05-04-103 12:41:36 <Rat-Salad> I will take care of all that once it's up
05-04-103 12:43:01 <WalterOS2> We'll have to skip first phase of WD since Doug's not here. :-(
05-04-103 12:43:11 <wdl> I think there are some small ineffective errors in the HTML.  An unbalanced tag or two - which don't seem to affect anything.
05-04-103 12:43:47 <wdl> I left 'em, not wanting to mangle the original(s) more that required.
05-04-103 12:44:54 <WalterOS2> Moving on to B2: Jeremy:- do you have anything to report on?
05-04-103 12:46:07 <Rat-Salad> no changes to report regarding the warpdoctor.org website
05-04-103 12:47:26 <WalterOS2> OK, how would you like to fill in for me for B3: and give people a brief status report on where we are regarding the Server/Mirror?
05-04-103 12:49:36 <Rat-Salad> well... let me ask this..
05-04-103 12:49:54 <Rat-Salad> what is the "popular" opinion on what should be done?
05-04-103 12:51:02 <Rat-Salad> ok... what do you think this should go down Walter?
05-04-103 12:51:10 <Rat-Salad> how I mean
05-04-103 12:52:44 <WalterOS2> Many of us want to build a new Server (VOICE2 ?) at Ken's place, given the value of VOICE1 vs. the cost of moving it.  Ideally we would leave VOICE1 where it is as a mirror.)
05-04-103 12:53:15 <Sector> VOICE1 costs a lot more then the shipping charges would be
05-04-103 12:53:39 <WalterOS2> But many people are also uncomfortable with a server in the hands of a non-OS/2, non-VOICE organization.
05-04-103 12:55:11 <WalterOS2> The price of hardware has dropped so drastically that we could build a faster, bigger machine for a lot less that what it cost to build VOICE1.
05-04-103 12:55:14 <Rat-Salad> that doesn't bother me so much... the only thing they have ever done with VOICE1 is reboot it
05-04-103 12:55:30 <Sector> Yes but still more then it costs to ship it
05-04-103 12:55:31 <Rat-Salad> that is true... hardware costs are down
05-04-103 12:55:49 <WalterOS2> I think the real question is, "What do  we do with VOICE1?"
05-04-103 12:56:57 <WalterOS2> Move it; Make it a Mirror where it is; or find an OS/2 business near by to move it to as a Mirror.
05-04-103 12:58:31 <WalterOS2> You see, we don't have a unified opinion, I'm doubtful if we'll ever get one.
05-04-103 12:58:55 <Rat-Salad> I guess it will differ depending on who you ask
05-04-103 12:59:19 <KenKrchnr> I didn't see anyone offering their opinion ;)
05-04-103 12:59:29 <WalterOS2> Sector: We're wouldn't throwing VOICE1 out:  it would serve a valuable purpose as a backup/mirror.
05-04-103 12:59:38 <WalterOS2> wouldn't be
05-04-103 12:59:53 <Sector> Never said we would be
05-04-103 12:59:54 <WarpedeCS> Well..I may be able to swing it to get voice1 here once our link is upgraded to 3 meg
05-04-103 13:00:13 <WarpedeCS> that will happen by end of May
05-04-103 13:03:16 <WalterOS2> Since it's going to cost money whatever we do, we'll have to put it a vote by the VOICE membership:  it's their money and their decision.
05-04-103 13:03:29 <WalterOS2> Ultimately.
05-04-103 13:05:45 <WarpedeCS> yea...what Voice1 delivered personally by an OS/2 user or was it shipped there?
05-04-103 13:05:53 <WarpedeCS> what = was
05-04-103 13:06:03 <Rat-Salad> Abel and I shipped it via UPS
05-04-103 13:08:04 <Rat-Salad> why don't we just make arrangements with ThinkExetreme to pack it up and ship it guys?
05-04-103 13:08:13 <WalterOS2> rs: That  was then (many years) and that was when you were living closer.
05-04-103 13:08:28 <Rat-Salad> why is it so necssary for one of us to personally drive there and get it?
05-04-103 13:08:50 <WarpedeCS> what?? to actually drive there and get it...that is nuts..
05-04-103 13:09:16 <Rat-Salad> they can stuff a box as well as any of us can
05-04-103 13:09:20 <WarpedeCS> I am sure someone there would pack it for us and ship it i
05-04-103 13:09:36 <WalterOS2> Because I'm a control freak I guess.  I don't trust something as important as our server to someone I've never even met.
05-04-103 13:10:11 <WarpedeCS> hmmm I buy lots of stuff from eBay...that is breakable..and it gets here...
05-04-103 13:10:51 <Rat-Salad> you don't trust them to put it in a box... stick a address label on the box.. and have it picked up by a parcel service?
05-04-103 13:11:35 <WalterOS2> Rat-Salad: You're the sysadmin.  Are you willing to take the responsibility if ThinkExtreme screws up, and doesn't ship everything or if something gets broken?
05-04-103 13:12:37 <Rat-Salad> thats what insurance is for Walter.. UPS does insurance for up to $500 I believe
05-04-103 13:12:57 <Sector> Nope, $100 unless you pay extra
05-04-103 13:13:16 <Rat-Salad> there is only one peice
05-04-103 13:13:28 <Rat-Salad> Abel and I only boxed up the server... nothing more
05-04-103 13:13:32 <Sector> .25 per $100 extra
05-04-103 13:13:42 <WarpedeCS> guess it won't be moving any time soon... hehehe
05-04-103 13:14:14 <WalterOS2> OK, next question: where are you going to send it?
05-04-103 13:14:25 <WarpedeCS> we haven't decided that yet
05-04-103 13:14:49 <WalterOS2> It's all part of the larger question.
05-04-103 13:14:51 <Rat-Salad> to Ken? :)
05-04-103 13:15:31 <WalterOS2> What do/does we/he do with there?
05-04-103 13:15:49 <Rat-Salad> hehe you just want a new server don't you Walter?
05-04-103 13:16:06 <WalterOS2> When his power goes out, it usually takes out the whole block, so it isn't much use as a mirror.
05-04-103 13:17:01 <Rat-Salad> we should probably fund the purchase of a UPS? :)
05-04-103 13:17:51 <WalterOS2> Probably a good idea, but according to Ken, it would have to be a big one. :-)
05-04-103 13:18:16 <Sector> How long does his power typically go out for¿
05-04-103 13:18:22 <Rat-Salad> geesh... power here never goes out... it only blinks
05-04-103 13:18:37 <WalterOS2> Unless we plug our server into his T1,which has a separate power supply. :-)
05-04-103 13:19:12 <WarpedeCS> so Voice1 does not have a UPS companion..
05-04-103 13:19:18 <WalterOS2> Ken:  how long does your power go out for when it goes?
05-04-103 13:19:20 <Rat-Salad> no
05-04-103 13:19:25 <KenKrchnr> Hey RS, we've got 2,000 amp 460v service
05-04-103 13:19:43 <Sector> VOICE1 doesn't have it's own UPS but it is on one at the moment.
05-04-103 13:19:45 <WarpedeCS> oh...I thought that was a natural marriage...server = UPS backup???
05-04-103 13:19:55 <KenKrchnr> Power failure time depends on a lot of things. The last one was about 16 hours.
05-04-103 13:20:29 <WalterOS2> Ken: Does your UPS last that long?
05-04-103 13:21:00 <KenKrchnr> And we've got ups's and a generator to keep office/phone/computers going _if_ someone's around to throw the switches. 
05-04-103 13:23:05 <WalterOS2> Before we hire TE to "stuff our server into a box" I think we should find a place other than Ken's to house VOICE1.
05-04-103 13:24:04 <WalterOS2> It only make sense to put the mirror in a separate location, esp. when the primary is subject to severe power problems.
05-04-103 13:25:26 <WarpedeCS> would you think that it should be secondary at the extreme power problem area
05-04-103 13:26:17 <WalterOS2> Possibily.
05-04-103 13:26:51 <WalterOS2> However that increases the logistics problems dramatically.
05-04-103 13:27:33 <WalterOS2> And I'm not sure anyone here want's to commit to buying a new server as the main server?
05-04-103 13:27:48 <WalterOS2> Sorry about the typos.
05-04-103 13:27:59 <WarpedeCS> well...at the moment Voice1 where is it seems to be ok where it is...till we can get a similar situation with good power...unless Voice purchases a ups for primary server
05-04-103 13:28:10 <KenKrchnr> I still vote for what I said originally to the mail list group -
05-04-103 13:28:20 <Rat-Salad> no offense intended to Ken... but why are we considering a hosting location with poor power service?
05-04-103 13:28:58 <KenKrchnr> 1. leave VOICE1 where it is as a mirror 'til other options pop up.
05-04-103 13:29:33 <KenKrchnr> 2. I can offer Voice the server the mirror is on now to be used as main site, or
05-04-103 13:30:23 <KenKrchnr>  I can build from parts on hand the faster server (faster than voice1), with scsi drives I have spare.
05-04-103 13:30:50 <KenKrchnr> 3. Use DNS hosting service to ensure constant uptime thru rollover.
05-04-103 13:31:25 <Sector> Don't need DNS hosting service to insure that, but it is an option.
05-04-103 13:31:48 <WalterOS2> Rat-Salad: Because, currently, its the best available option.
05-04-103 13:31:51 <KenKrchnr> (And, the power isn't usually that bad, I just said that it can go out for a while, that was our first outage in about 18 months, and out of the ordinary)
05-04-103 13:31:57 <WalterOS2> its=it's
05-04-103 13:33:21 <WalterOS2> Frankly, I think we should accept Ken's proposal.
05-04-103 13:33:26 <KenKrchnr> If our power was that bad I'd be out of business. We run 24 hrs a day. 
05-04-103 13:34:28 <Rat-Salad> I'd still like to see us getting the permanent DNS hosting at dyndns.org
05-04-103 13:34:31 <WalterOS2> Ken is a really good guy, knows his stuff, and once again is willing contribute manhours and hardware to our cause.
05-04-103 13:35:34 <WalterOS2> Rat-Salad: I agree with the permanent DNS hosting comment.
05-04-103 13:37:58 <WalterOS2> I'm certainly content to leave VOICE1 at TE as long as we have a plan in place.
05-04-103 13:39:03 <Rat-Salad> if TE falls through I say Vaughn's place would be the best place for VOICE1
05-04-103 13:42:52 <KenKrchnr> NP, but soon we need to decide which option is best (I vote for the newer server, that'll be from my existing workstation at work, which means I get to get a new one ;) )
05-04-103 13:43:01 <WalterOS2> You should hold off putting boards together until I pass it by the BOD and give you the official OK.
05-04-103 13:43:22 <Sector> We can discuss it at the meeting tonight
05-04-103 13:47:30 <WalterOS2> Item C: OTHER BUSINESS
05-04-103 13:47:47 <WalterOS2> Is there any other business?
05-04-103 13:48:01 <WalterOS2> Relating to WD, that is?
05-04-103 13:49:51 <WalterOS2> OK, I guess we can "go home" early today.
05-04-103 13:50:06 <WalterOS2> Anybody care to move for an adjournment?
05-04-103 13:50:28 * Rat-Salad moves
05-04-103 13:50:50 <WalterOS2> All in favour of adjourning, type Aye.
05-04-103 13:50:58 <Gord> Aye
05-04-103 13:50:59 <Rat-Salad> Aye
05-04-103 13:51:03 <KenKrchnr> Aye
05-04-103 13:51:04 <WalterOS2> Aye
05-04-103 13:51:12 <wdl> Aye
05-04-103 13:51:17 <WarpedeCS> aye
05-04-103 13:51:42 <WalterOS2> Opposed, type Nay
05-04-103 13:51:57 <WalterOS2> Motion is carried, meeting is adjourned.