04-06-103 12:08:23 Today we are having an open session. However, please keep the discussion to items regarding Warpdoctor. :-) 04-06-103 12:10:47 I like to do this every so often, to let new ideas get input. 04-06-103 12:10:58 hi everyone...just got home 04-06-103 12:11:21 Also, some people are less comfortable with the highly structured format of most meetings. :-) 04-06-103 12:13:18 Actually, Doug you can tell us. What's the URL of the Input format? 04-06-103 12:13:48 You mean the one that Bill put up last week? 04-06-103 12:14:29 http://pws.prserv.net/wdl/input.html 04-06-103 12:15:41 BTW, before I forget, Roderick Klein, the tech heavy-weight from Mensys isn't able to come to day. However, I get the impression he intends to join us as often as possible. :-) 04-06-103 12:16:52 Is Roderick the tall skinny guy concerned about public transportation at last year's WS meeting? 04-06-103 12:17:39 I don't know what he *looks* like, only what he *sounds* like on the phone. His IRC ident is eCSNL. 04-06-103 12:18:16 Ultra-deep bass voice with a Dutch accent, naturally. 04-06-103 12:18:28 Doug: That was probably Roderick. He gave a session on eCS 04-06-103 12:19:52 He called me mid-afternoon on Friday from Holland, and we spoke about various things, mostly eCS 1.1, for about 2 1/2 hours. Good thing it was on his nickle. 04-06-103 12:23:06 did you guys talk any about Mensys and mirror for WD? 04-06-103 12:23:59 No, I thought of it a couple of times, but the subject seemed to get changed. 04-06-103 12:24:32 It's definitely something I want to discuss with him, now that we've established a connection. 04-06-103 12:32:12 What do you guys think about trying to port DrRexx to Windows? 04-06-103 12:32:27 What exactly is DrRexx? 04-06-103 12:32:43 What's windows?? ;) 04-06-103 12:32:44 Doug: What would be the point of that? 04-06-103 12:33:01 And why do you want to port it to Windoze? 04-06-103 12:33:06 mickysoft windoze based pluginż 04-06-103 12:33:24 It would allow DrRexx programs created in DrDialog on OS/2 to run on Windows machines. 04-06-103 12:33:59 sector - yes, utlimately that is were it would be going. 04-06-103 12:34:01 We don't have the manpower to support Windows. 04-06-103 12:34:14 Nor the desire... 04-06-103 12:34:19 I thinking about this as a project for life after WD 04-06-103 12:34:29 Also true. 04-06-103 12:34:54 What do you mean, "After WD"? 04-06-103 12:35:31 Once the site gets built, or rather the infastructure for the site gets built, I will have some free time 04-06-103 12:36:32 I would like to think WD will not ever be complete, because new hardware is always being developed, and new software drivers will be being developed. 04-06-103 12:36:45 Doug, why you want to support Windoz 04-06-103 12:36:50 If you *really* want to port it, then maybe Linux??? 04-06-103 12:36:51 Really? 04-06-103 12:37:12 That is true - the site contents will always be changing, or rather increasing. 04-06-103 12:37:22 Exactly. 04-06-103 12:37:44 But the structure, or software that runs the site won't change much, if at all 04-06-103 12:38:01 Probably true. 04-06-103 12:38:19 Why windows? first of all - it would be easier to convert DrRexx to windows than to Linux, because Windows is more similar than Linux is. 04-06-103 12:38:29 At least, not if your initial design is perfect. 04-06-103 12:38:50 Second - out in the real world I have to deal with windows all the time - unfortunately. 04-06-103 12:39:10 The more stuff that I can use that runs on both OS/2 and Windows, the more that I can use OS/2 in the real world. 04-06-103 12:39:28 Meaning - getting clients to allow me to build stuff in OS/2, or use OS/2 04-06-103 12:40:53 I find that is it much easier to convence a client that developing in OS/2 is Ok, if I assue them that I can port to Windows at any time, for a minimal cost. 04-06-103 12:41:26 Then they aren't worried about being "locked" in to an operating system that scares them. 04-06-103 12:42:52 So you really are talking about a DrREXX runtime for windoze? 04-06-103 12:43:03 Yes 04-06-103 12:43:19 Just the runtime, not the application builder. That would be too tough. 04-06-103 12:43:49 DrRexx may also turn out to be too difficult. Don't know yet. 04-06-103 12:44:06 Doug: As I said at the outset, we really don't have the time/manpower to do this now. 04-06-103 12:44:18 Later on, things might be different. 04-06-103 12:44:24 Not now. I'm thinking about the future. 04-06-103 12:44:51 I would also like to see WD or VOICE, or someone, try and take over VX-Rexx from Sybase. 04-06-103 12:44:59 Which would also be a future project. 04-06-103 12:46:00 Wouldn't it be nice to be able to build an application in VX-Rexx and sell or distribute it to both OS/2 and Windows clients? 04-06-103 12:46:36 Could possibly result in more applications... 04-06-103 12:46:38 Yes, but we'd have to be careful since VOICE is a non-profit org. 04-06-103 12:47:12 I suspect the only way Sybase would turn lose of VX-Rexx is as an open source project. 04-06-103 12:47:31 And porting VX-Rexx to windows would be much tougher than DrRexx. 04-06-103 12:47:32 That doesn't bother me. 04-06-103 12:48:07 DrDialog builds a standard resouce file (*.RES) which contains the dialogs or windows, and the Rexx code. 04-06-103 12:48:10 Would there be licensing problem with porting and O-S product to Windoze? 04-06-103 12:48:21 and=an 04-06-103 12:49:00 I suspect that the Rexx code is stored as string resouces in the *.RES file. 04-06-103 12:49:38 To port DrRexx to Windows I think would involve (possibly) converting the *.RES file from OS/2 format to Win format. 04-06-103 12:50:02 And then loading the dialog resources in windows from the Windows formatting *.RES file. 04-06-103 12:50:15 The Rexx stuff wouldn't change. Rexx is Rexx. 04-06-103 12:50:41 I don't see how that is relevant, but I don't understand O-S licensing stuff very well, so I won't pursue the matter here. 04-06-103 12:51:20 Walter - I think that OS software can be ported to any platform, since that is the basic purpose behind OS 04-06-103 12:51:51 If you say so. :-) 04-06-103 12:54:06 DrRexx is the runtime that loads that creates the windows and controls from the resources in the *.RES file, and executes any Rexx code associated with certain "events" for a window/control. 04-06-103 12:54:45 You could actually use DrDialog as a standard dialog editor and then compile the resource/dialogs into a C or C++ program if you wanted to. 04-06-103 12:55:19 It is a very clever design. 04-06-103 12:59:53 BTW - that former client still runs DB2/2 and Lotus Go Web Server on OS/2. They bought Oracle and a Win2k box to port the stuff off of OS/2, but they have never gotten around to it. 04-06-103 13:00:04 It is hard to be motivated to change something that works. 04-06-103 13:03:40 Agreed. 04-06-103 13:03:56 Could we talk about something else? 04-06-103 13:04:22 Or do you still have some more to say on this subject, Doug? 04-06-103 13:04:40 no - sorry I spent so much time on it. 04-06-103 13:05:17 Hey--This is an Open Session, remember. That's what there for. 04-06-103 13:06:07 Last week, I think we started a discussion, critique if you like, on the Input form. 04-06-103 13:07:16 Does anyone else have any comments on it? 04-06-103 13:08:49 Just to start off, I have a minor nit to pick. :-) 04-06-103 13:09:03 Bill, get out your notepad. 04-06-103 13:09:24 All the comments/labels say OS/2. 04-06-103 13:09:52 I think we should either say eCS/OS2 or, and I think this would be better, 04-06-103 13:10:20 have a separate category for eCS compatibility. 04-06-103 13:10:45 WalterOS2: I'm logging. 04-06-103 13:11:15 Seperate for different versions period, OS/2 or eCS 04-06-103 13:11:21 There are a number of people in the OS/2 community who are sensitive to the issue of the relationship of whether eCS is a version of OS/2. 04-06-103 13:11:38 "eCS/OS2": Of course. Sorry. 04-06-103 13:11:50 Besides that, OS/2 compatibility does not mean eCS compatibility and vice-versa. 04-06-103 13:12:30 That's why I'm saying different, can vary between OS/2 versions as well (not just eCS) 04-06-103 13:12:50 "...sensitive to the issue": But *we* don't need to buy into that "issue", I think. 04-06-103 13:13:31 For the moment, put such distinctions as may arise into the Comments field? 04-06-103 13:13:42 There are a huge number of drivers distributed with CD2 and CD3 of eCS 1.x that allow eCS to run many devices that OS/2 cannot, at least not without also buying Software Choice, which I am not even sure is for sale any more. 04-06-103 13:13:58 It is for sale. 04-06-103 13:14:55 Doesn't make OS/2 incapable of running the devices 04-06-103 13:16:30 Sector: Then we need to specify OS/2 with Software Choice 04-06-103 13:16:54 Maybe something like OS/2 with driver available through Software Choice 04-06-103 13:17:32 For drivers - I suspect that very few drivers will not run on all version of OS/2 from v 2 on up, including ecs. 04-06-103 13:17:33 wdl: "We" may or may not want to "buy into it" but I see no need to turn off some eCS users, when it can be avoided. :-) 04-06-103 13:17:39 That's what the "where did you get the driver field" is for. 04-06-103 13:18:08 For software or applications, there will probbably be version specific requirements 04-06-103 13:18:10 Well, I was just making a comment. :-) 04-06-103 13:19:02 "turn off": Given the nature of the "controversy", the only way to avoid it is to have parallel input pages??? 04-06-103 13:19:11 No - its OK walter. I think we need to have all OS/2 versions, and all eCS versions selectable so that they can be specified when needed or appropriate 04-06-103 13:19:29 Thank you Doug. 04-06-103 13:21:00 Agreed 04-06-103 13:23:16 There can't be a sniffer to detect which OS is hitting the page? 04-06-103 13:23:38 If you are talking about the web page, yes. 04-06-103 13:24:01 ALthough I don't think we will be able to detect the difference between eCS and OS/2 04-06-103 13:24:37 what about kernel versions and fix paks? 04-06-103 13:24:43 "sniffer": I *hate* sniffers. 04-06-103 13:25:20 The browser - or user agent - sends a string that identifies the operating system. But the string is not very detailed. 04-06-103 13:25:29 wdl...why you hardly even know it does it... 04-06-103 13:25:31 If I know anything, that will be the next change to DAYLIGHT TIME. 04-06-103 13:26:20 "hardly even know": Until you *know* it's not presenting the info you need 04-06-103 13:26:30 Doug..I have have hit some sites that seem to detect a lot of the OS stuff ...at times... 04-06-103 13:26:43 just because it thinks you're "not the right kinda guy" 04-06-103 13:27:07 Hang on - there is a url on WD that will show you what the browser reports - let me find it. 04-06-103 13:27:14 wdl: I *hate* sniffers as well. 04-06-103 13:27:21 Uh guy= guy/gal. PC donch know. 04-06-103 13:27:39 WalterOS2...your perinoid..hehehe 04-06-103 13:29:00 try www.warpdoctor.org/cgi-bin/showenvir.exe 04-06-103 13:29:23 The line USER_AGENT is what your browser reports the OS/2 and browser type/version 04-06-103 13:29:38 Sorry the line HTTP_USER_AGENT 04-06-103 13:30:05 I would rather have a choice option myself. I may be looking from one machine because the other is down. 04-06-103 13:30:13 For Netscape v 4.61 the line reads: HTTP_USER_AGENT:Mozilla/4.61 [en] (OS/2; U) 04-06-103 13:30:40 Hmmm. It's says I'm using OS/2. Actually I'm using eCS 1.03. 04-06-103 13:31:05 For IBM web browser the line says: HTTP_USER_AGENT:Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; U; Warp 4.5; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020919 IBM Web Browser for OS/2 04-06-103 13:31:20 mine says Warp 4.5 which is eCS 1.0 with fixpak 3 04-06-103 13:31:33 And the user can set the user_agent to whatever they want. It's not very reliable. 04-06-103 13:31:38 I am using ecs v 1.0 - and you can see what each browser reports my OS as 04-06-103 13:31:53 hre is what it found OS/2; U; Warp 4.5; en-US; rv:1.3 04-06-103 13:32:16 Which browser WarpedOS2? 04-06-103 13:32:24 Mozilla 04-06-103 13:33:02 wdl: I almost never use OS/2 unless I absolutely have, and actually look upon eCS as the next version of OS/2. However, unlike some people I don't go broadcasting that around the 'net, calling the others "losers", and disconnecting from them. 04-06-103 13:33:06 the rv.??? appears to be the browser version 04-06-103 13:33:48 ok...Doug that would be more acurate as ecs on my system shows 1.03 on boot up 04-06-103 13:34:23 let me try mozilla v 1.2 04-06-103 13:34:46 On mozilla, go to help and about mozilla, and it will show your user agent 04-06-103 13:35:01 I think IBM Web Browser had that as well 04-06-103 13:35:08 WalterOS2: "never use" - I think the controversy is silly. Maybe not to Serenity though 04-06-103 13:35:41 Here is from Mozilla v 1.2a: HTTP_USER_AGENT:Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; U; Warp 4.5; en-US; rv:1.2a) Gecko/20020912 04-06-103 13:35:44 this is what my mozilla says: 04-06-103 13:35:54 Mozilla 1.3 04-06-103 13:35:54 Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; U; Warp 4.5; en-US; rv:1.3; MultiZilla v1.4.0.3f) Gecko/20030313 04-06-103 13:36:01 Personally, *I* think of MCP1 as Warp5, MCP2 as Warp6, and eCS as Warp5a or -6a. 04-06-103 13:36:22 ...or maybe Warp7 04-06-103 13:38:37 The problem is trying to identify if we are running on eCS. And I don't know of a way of doing that. 04-06-103 13:42:26 All: Before this session is over - Please some specific advice _re_ the input.html?? 04-06-103 13:42:48 Any other questions, comments? 04-06-103 13:43:06 And... Anyone know what I did wrong with one of the top entry fields? Missing its lead question - on my screen 04-06-103 13:47:50 wdl, it's a misplaced < in the form definition on the second line. 04-06-103 13:48:21 KenKrchnr: OK, I'll look into that. Thanks. 04-06-103 13:49:35 Doing this at all I see as a learning experience for me - hoping it's useful to others as well, of course. 04-06-103 13:53:35 Anybody have anything else? 04-06-103 13:58:58 On that note, I guess I'll invite someone to make a motion to adjourn the meeting. 04-06-103 14:00:45 move to adjourn 04-06-103 14:01:26 All in favour of adjournment. 04-06-103 14:01:38 aye