03-30-103 12:24:09 OK, let's get started. 03-30-103 12:24:28 Agenda Item A: Old Business 03-30-103 12:25:03 Subitem 1a: Status Reports: 03-30-103 12:25:15 Status of T1: Ken 03-30-103 12:25:21 Anything to report? 03-30-103 12:25:53 Not much new. Verizon has lit up the fiber, installed the fiber terminus. - 03-30-103 12:26:35 What's the scheduled date, again? 03-30-103 12:26:45 Now we need the fiber to copper stuff. I've never seen such specialization. (Oh, I can't install that, that's asheet metal screw, I only do wood screws) 03-30-103 12:27:14 We are supposed to be live this coming week. We'll see. 03-30-103 12:28:43 A1b HCL Project 03-30-103 12:29:01 - Database adjustments-Doug? 03-30-103 12:29:35 Sorry, that should A1bi :-) 03-30-103 12:36:37 I guess Doug sort of answered the next item (A1bii) as well. 03-30-103 12:37:48 A1c Website. 03-30-103 12:37:59 A1bi... I've done my bit, as far as I can go... I think. 03-30-103 12:38:01 Anything to say on that subject? 03-30-103 12:38:34 BTW, I appreciate your fixing up the linkage on the IRCLOG page. 03-30-103 12:38:37 my attention has been on www.os2voice.org actually... no changes to report on www.warpdoctor.org today 03-30-103 12:38:51 A1bi... I have the two preliminary pages on my web site. 03-30-103 12:39:42 the way I see it... my job with the website will be slow, untill Doug's work is sprung into action 03-30-103 12:39:45 A1bi... See http://pws.prserv.net/wdl/input.html 03-30-103 12:41:59 A1bi... Er, " A1bii ". 03-30-103 12:46:10 yes..I can get to it but some bitmaps missing or is that to be expected? 03-30-103 12:46:42 Bill? 03-30-103 12:46:55 WarpedOS2: There is (at least) one error. Scratching head... 03-30-103 12:47:55 ...And there are other internal things I need to know more about... 03-30-103 12:49:37 And the "linput" page - text format to use - *does* link from that page, so you can look at it as well. 03-30-103 12:50:20 I need to get my cgi script over on the new fyrelizard.com server.. so we can use that.. can't think of a script that is as easy to use that will work on VOICE1 as the one I have used in the past 03-30-103 12:50:56 SAll: Soooo, what should I do next? If anything???? 03-30-103 12:52:01 Work on the things we've identified here, I guess. 03-30-103 12:52:25 Jeremy, how big a project is it for you to move your cgi script? 03-30-103 12:52:41 should be easy 03-30-103 12:52:57 just need to get to it 03-30-103 12:53:16 OK, why don't you do that as soon as possible? Please. 03-30-103 12:54:28 You'll probably have to wait for Jeremy to get his script installed. 03-30-103 12:56:06 Which email address are we going to use for email input? - meaning, will the email go to the voice1 server? 03-30-103 12:56:22 that was my next question 03-30-103 12:56:25 WalterOS2: OK. For now -- What Me Worry? 03-30-103 12:56:45 Doug, Jerermy: What do you mean? 03-30-103 12:56:58 er, Jeremy. 03-30-103 12:57:22 Are we going to process email input on the voice1 server? (do we have any other choice?) 03-30-103 12:58:17 Since the VOICE server holds WD, that makes the most sense. At least to me. 03-30-103 12:58:48 What "processing" is involved? 03-30-103 12:59:18 Do we have anyone that knows the email API? Meaning - is there someone that can write a routine that separates or handles email attachements that go to this input address? 03-30-103 13:00:28 Does the VOICE server still allow attachments? 03-30-103 13:00:53 They've been banned from a number of the mailing lists. 03-30-103 13:01:12 The server doesn't have a problem with attachements, the mailing list software is seperate and a NORMAL setting to disallow attachmenbts 03-30-103 13:01:59 Ideally - the person sending in an input via email would also attach one or more drivers for that hardware described in the input form. 03-30-103 13:02:00 Good thing Mark isn't here. :-) 03-30-103 13:02:01 Doug... for WarpDoctor stuff... I used the fyrelizard.com server to do it... Abel did have a script that would do it I recall.. but.. I recall it was difficult to work with 03-30-103 13:02:30 I don't know anything about email - file formats, API, etc. 03-30-103 13:02:31 it was easier to use the cgi from my site 03-30-103 13:02:35 That is why I am asking 03-30-103 13:03:00 Vaughn, How knowledgable are you about the inner workings of email? 03-30-103 13:03:20 API's, etc. 03-30-103 13:03:22 what's up 03-30-103 13:03:34 what you want to do 03-30-103 13:03:53 For email input we need to: 03-30-103 13:03:58 We need to be able to process the email input from the input form. 03-30-103 13:04:13 1) scan the email body and extract information from the body that is put into fields in the database, 03-30-103 13:04:26 what about a rex script to send it off somewheres? 03-30-103 13:04:28 2) take the attachement(s) and input those into the database 03-30-103 13:05:15 sorry...I dont' think I can do that... 03-30-103 13:05:40 If we had a rexx script that detached the attachments and moved the message plus files (formally attached) to a directory, that would be great 03-30-103 13:05:47 That's OK. Just checking. :-) 03-30-103 13:06:06 OK, (1) is easy. (2) is just a bit more involved. But both are doable. 03-30-103 13:06:26 I see we have a volunteer. 03-30-103 13:06:42 I do very much the same at work. 03-30-103 13:06:44 We could always resort to using PMMail and the Rexx exits in it, if they are powerful enough 03-30-103 13:06:46 maybe Peter - can do up a script 03-30-103 13:07:39 Peter - software guy that writes Weasel... 03-30-103 13:07:54 Just a curiosity(sp). What is going in the attachments? 03-30-103 13:08:03 drivers 03-30-103 13:08:20 we do already have such a script.. as I said 03-30-103 13:08:40 Is it Rexx Jeremy? 03-30-103 13:09:17 yes it is... I just didn't want to mess with it, because what I had on my server seemed easier hehehe 03-30-103 13:10:00 I am sorry - I was asleep at the wheel. So you have something on your server that does that? 03-30-103 13:10:35 yeah.. I have a cgi script that will do the job 03-30-103 13:10:51 The linux server? 03-30-103 13:11:28 So, could we use an email address that goes to your server to do this? 03-30-103 13:11:48 do we have one already or need to create one? 03-30-103 13:11:58 I can relay mail to anywhere you like 03-30-103 13:12:26 Ummm, the database is where?? 03-30-103 13:12:56 Database is on Voice1 - and the mirror 03-30-103 13:13:35 So we go from voice1 to email to a different server back to voice1? 03-30-103 13:13:59 I missed the part where doug said it needed to be inputed into the database 03-30-103 13:14:29 Ken - sorta - we give out the input email address that is on RS's server. He processes the email and inputs the data into the database 03-30-103 13:14:52 Which then outputs the data on warpdoctor 03-30-103 13:15:27 Or processes the email and sends the separate files back to VOICE1 - makes no matter 03-30-103 13:15:38 OK, but Jeremy sees what I'm getting at. How does it go back to the database? 03-30-103 13:15:55 Doug is suggesting manual input 03-30-103 13:16:02 There is a DB2 client for Linux. And Object Rexx and Regenia Rexx both run on Linux 03-30-103 13:16:37 do we need to use PHP for frontend to input into database? 03-30-103 13:16:48 Not at all. All I am suggesting is that if you already have a script that parses up the email and attachements, it might be easier to do that part on your machine. 03-30-103 13:17:14 One question, if I may. 03-30-103 13:17:20 let me merge the rexx interupter here 03-30-103 13:18:36 What happens if Jeremy leaves the project for some reason? 03-30-103 13:18:36 I am assumming that the DB2 client on Linux supports Rexx. This would have to be checked out. 03-30-103 13:19:37 Then we move it to something else. Once the message is parsed, the process is the same no matter what machine it is running on. Meaning that if we use Rexx we can move the process email - input to database part to any machine 03-30-103 13:19:47 I don't like the idea of having a vital element of the WD database on another server, especially one that isn't eCS/OS/2. 03-30-103 13:20:15 As long as it works, does it really matter if it's an OS/2 based server or not¿ 03-30-103 13:20:38 Public perception is important. 03-30-103 13:20:41 I would call it an auxillary part. But if it gets THAT part up and running quicker, then maybe we ought to consider it. 03-30-103 13:20:45 We can always change 03-30-103 13:21:03 I think for the support end...it would be better native 03-30-103 13:21:04 I don't see where the OS matters... Linux is very reliable WalterOS2 03-30-103 13:21:19 I'm not concerned about public perception here.....or the reliability of Linux, either. 03-30-103 13:21:37 There is two parts to the email thingy 03-30-103 13:21:49 1) receive email and separate attachements 03-30-103 13:21:58 I'm just thinking we have to realize that we can't assume any one will be with us forever. 03-30-103 13:22:02 2) parse email message and extract information to put into database fields 03-30-103 13:22:11 3) and put attachement files into database fields 03-30-103 13:22:23 (ok 3 parts) 03-30-103 13:22:28 I certainly hope Jeremy never leaves us, but there's always a possibility. 03-30-103 13:22:34 Parts 2 - 3 could be plarform netural 03-30-103 13:22:55 part 1 if the tricky one, that we don't know how to do right now. Execpt for Jeremy on his machine 03-30-103 13:23:20 Part 1 is no problem to do on the local server. 03-30-103 13:23:22 all I know for certian is that I can relay the mail for the form 03-30-103 13:23:34 Jeremy: Did you say Abel had a script for doing the same thing? 03-30-103 13:23:57 Ken - can you do part 1? 03-30-103 13:24:13 Like I said, I do virtually the same thing now, but the attachments go into our Domino database, not DB2. 03-30-103 13:24:15 yep... as I explained.. I never used it because what I had seemed to be a simpler solution 03-30-103 13:24:39 ok - looks like that with Ken we could keep it all on VOICE1 03-30-103 13:25:16 sorry ken - remember, I am asleep at the wheel here 03-30-103 13:25:53 if I can remember when the script resides on VOICE1 I could look at it again 03-30-103 13:26:19 Ken - do you use a script or some packaged software application for this? 03-30-103 13:26:39 I use a REXX script. 03-30-103 13:26:56 perfect 03-30-103 13:27:31 if possible... could you e-mail me the script, so I can study it Ken? 03-30-103 13:27:39 MR2/I passes an email. I scan it, detach and run virus scan, send to Domino for user email. 03-30-103 13:28:30 Sure RS. Actually, I have several scripts for email and POP utilities I've written. 03-30-103 13:28:43 I'm willing to go along with the rest of the group decides on this. I just wanted to make my point. 03-30-103 13:29:11 I trust that you believe in *\ comments \* hehe 03-30-103 13:29:29 It is a very important point - any of us could disappear for a variety of reasons 03-30-103 13:29:46 I could get ran over by a bus :) 03-30-103 13:29:55 Whats a /* */ ?? 03-30-103 13:30:38 That particular script is at work, I'll send it tomorrow. 03-30-103 13:32:38 I have a copy of ObjectRexx for Linux also. I just don't know if it includes the DB2 interface or not. 03-30-103 13:34:19 Ken, could you email me the script also? 03-30-103 13:34:33 Doug: The problem with ObjectRexx for OS/2 at least, is that you have to reboot the system, and then you cannot use any classical Rexx scripts. I don't know if this true with Linux, or not. 03-30-103 13:35:05 Sure Gord, what's your email? 03-30-103 13:35:09 Sure you can. ObjectRexx and Classic Rexx are (almost) completely compatible. 03-30-103 13:35:24 That's why I haven't tried messing around with it. 03-30-103 13:35:51 The only thing that is different, from the classic rexx viewpoint, is that ObjectRexx checks the entire script for syntax errors before it starts 03-30-103 13:36:41 Where classic Rexx only checks the script for syntax errors as it processes it. So with ObjectRexx you may have sybtax errors reported that you never see with classic Rexx because you never get to that branch 03-30-103 13:37:00 do I want to doug? LOL (I'm just doing this for *me* btw) 03-30-103 13:37:05 Doug, the voice of experience knows that's not the *only* difference ;-) 03-30-103 13:38:10 Show me a classic rexx script without syntax errors, that will not run on ObjectRexx, and I'll eat my keboard 03-30-103 13:38:45 Plastic isn't good for you. 03-30-103 13:38:45 Got salt? Classic REXX runs - 03-30-103 13:39:06 I'm just quoting the manual. :-) 03-30-103 13:39:08 stream( filename, 'c', 'o') 03-30-103 13:39:24 Object REXX fails unless you have 03-30-103 13:39:42 stream( filename, 'c', 'open' ) 03-30-103 13:39:54 Like I said, the voice of experience. 03-30-103 13:40:07 - the gauntlet is down - 03-30-103 13:40:31 And there's no error message, just the file does not respond the same. 03-30-103 13:41:30 Found that the hard way trying to recreate a problem some users were having with eBayWatch. 03-30-103 13:42:22 well - if you are right I will not be have "regular" supper tonight! 03-30-103 13:46:03 We just have one more item of business, I think. 03-30-103 13:46:20 B. New Business 03-30-103 13:46:44 Subitem 1. Java clients...... 03-30-103 13:46:56 I'm skipping that. 03-30-103 13:47:02 Subitem 2. 03-30-103 13:47:14 What is it you need about Java clients¿ 03-30-103 13:47:55 This was a discussion started by eCSNL, and we never got into any specifics. 03-30-103 13:48:17 There are currently two servers with Java based IRC clients, voice1 will also be getting some 03-30-103 13:48:47 He's not here, and you guys have tapped into the IBM Java Applet, which seems to work fine for now. 03-30-103 13:50:19 B2. 03-30-103 13:50:28 What about WD Phase1. 03-30-103 13:51:33 Remember way back we were going to try to put something together that people could see and use, just to see that WD as alive and that we were doing things?? 03-30-103 13:52:04 I even wrote an article about. Seems to me it was about a year ago. 03-30-103 13:52:18 er. about it. 03-30-103 13:54:33 Would I would like to do, if it is ok with everyone is 03-30-103 13:54:50 get a version of the site running that uses the plug-in for both input and output. 03-30-103 13:55:00 Then build the version that runs without the plug-in 03-30-103 13:55:42 I would anticipate a number of changes between the plug-in version and the non-plugin version, due to everyone getting a chance to use the thing 03-30-103 13:56:01 Might be best to do both so people realize the plugin isn't required 03-30-103 13:56:17 Changes can be made after if need be 03-30-103 13:56:35 Do you have any sort of an ETA? 03-30-103 13:56:49 Sector, not for phase 1. 03-30-103 13:56:51 I would think that we would not "announce" the plug-in only version, but it would be mainly for us here, to use at first 03-30-103 13:57:41 I think that I can spend most of this week on it. We MAY have something we can play with in a week or two. 03-30-103 13:58:05 Most of the screen shots in the design doc came from working stuff 03-30-103 13:59:00 Doing output without the plug-in won't be that big of deal. Doing input without the plug-in and without javasript will be pretty tough 03-30-103 13:59:21 Do you have any feelback from your plugin as to how well it supports various browsers? 03-30-103 13:59:22 It is the input part that concerns me 03-30-103 14:00:09 I would really leave the "without plugin" until phase 2, unless there a lot of browsers that don't work with it. 03-30-103 14:00:10 From what I can tell right now, it supports Mozilla, IBM Web Browser, Netscape 4.61 and Opera 03-30-103 14:00:39 Hey, no WebExplorer¿ ;> 03-30-103 14:01:04 WebEx doesn't support plug-ins, as far as I can tell 03-30-103 14:01:05 That leaves out Web Explore, and the Text Browser. I can't think of its name. 03-30-103 14:01:18 Links? 03-30-103 14:01:20 Lynx is one but not the only one 03-30-103 14:01:31 The non-plugin version would support WebEx, both for input and output 03-30-103 14:01:41 Lynx is the one I had in mind. 03-30-103 14:01:50 No JavaScript in Web Explorer 03-30-103 14:01:57 Right. 03-30-103 14:01:58 Do we want to try and support text based browsers also? 03-30-103 14:03:13 For the sake of getting something working asap, I suggest you get the plugin version going first. That will cover the vast majority of non hi-power users. 03-30-103 14:03:18 I would suggest not. 03-30-103 14:03:28 Why? 03-30-103 14:03:45 Does anyone use them still? 03-30-103 14:03:46 "Text based browsers' - Please! Sometimes one is *forced* into using them... 03-30-103 14:04:04 ok that answers that. 03-30-103 14:04:11 Hmmm, non hi-power¿ Lynx or Links would use less system resources... 03-30-103 14:04:15 * Sector has Lynx installed 03-30-103 14:04:47 heh currently its impossible to support webex on the warpdoctor.org site (my bad for using javascript) 03-30-103 14:04:56 actually, i have a lot of friends who use text based browers, but they run them on mainframes, not os/2 03-30-103 14:05:26 ok - what I will need is a copy of some of those text based browsers we want to support, please. 03-30-103 14:06:07 Or rather, I can assume that if I do NOT recognize the browser, assume it is text based 03-30-103 14:06:30 Does Lynx support tables? 03-30-103 14:06:34 Doug: You never answered my question, as to why you apparently want to support all browsers in Phase 1. 03-30-103 14:07:01 Oh - I don't want to support them all in phase 1 03-30-103 14:07:02 You said that was going to be tough to do. 03-30-103 14:07:21 Which ones do you want to support in Phase 1, then? 03-30-103 14:07:38 Getting input to work with WebEx will be tough. But I would rather hold off on that until phase 2 if that is ok? 03-30-103 14:07:53 Those that'll support the plugin (Mozilla, IBM web browser, Netscape 4.61, Opera) 03-30-103 14:08:01 yes 03-30-103 14:08:11 Fine with me. What about the "text-based" browsers? 03-30-103 14:08:19 phase 2 03-30-103 14:08:43 OK, so we are thinking along the same lines. :-) 03-30-103 14:08:57 For awhile I wasn't sure. 03-30-103 14:09:38 I think that what we will have a a week or two is something we can use to input data and explore the structure of the site, and how the site works. 03-30-103 14:10:00 After we input some data and mess with the site for awhile, then it would go public. 03-30-103 14:11:12 Unless someone has some "other business" or wants to make a comment, we are done. 03-30-103 14:11:47 If there are any lurkers who have something to say, now's the time. :-) 03-30-103 14:12:38 Anybody care to make a motion? 03-30-103 14:13:10 I move we adjourn 03-30-103 14:13:37 All in favour of adjourning, type Aye. 03-30-103 14:13:44 Aye 03-30-103 14:13:47 Aye 03-30-103 14:13:49 aye 03-30-103 14:13:55 aye 03-30-103 14:13:56 Aye 03-30-103 14:13:57 Aye 03-30-103 14:13:59 aye 03-30-103 14:14:04 aye 03-30-103 14:14:29 Opposed, if any, type Nay 03-30-103 14:14:50 Motion is carried; meeting is adjourned.