03-02-103 12:24:11 For any who haven't read the Agenda yet, you can get it at http://www.warpdoctor.org/agendas/warpdoc_2003-03-02.html 03-02-103 12:29:08 Agenda A1. Proposal to have WD Support channel of eCS Network 03-02-103 12:30:26 Doug: would you like to present the idea you and eCSNL had at the end of last week's meeting now that there's a little more time? 03-02-103 12:30:37 Sure 03-02-103 12:31:18 One of the things that became clear in last weeks meeting was that there was possibly a misunderstanding about what happens in the WD meeting 03-02-103 12:31:45 There was the idea that the WD meeting was one where people could ask support questions and get answers in real time 03-02-103 12:32:26 So after the end of the regular meeting ecsNL and I discussed the idea of a support channel for doing just that 03-02-103 12:32:52 I remember having a similar discussion in a pervious WD meeting about providing real time, or almost real time support 03-02-103 12:33:14 sounds like a good idea 03-02-103 12:33:25 The disussion I remember from the previous meeting was: 1) should it be done in IRC or a mailing list, or a forum 03-02-103 12:33:43 how would the channel be staffed? 03-02-103 12:33:44 (I believe TEAM NL was mentioned as an example of a group that does a mailing list) 03-02-103 12:34:04 jer0: That's my main concern as well. 03-02-103 12:34:08 That is a good questions - and I don't remember if we ever got that far in our previous meeting 03-02-103 12:34:29 There's an IRC example as well (#scoug does a help desk Wednesday nights) 03-02-103 12:34:38 I seem to remember that there was some leaning towards the mailing list because of staffing issues 03-02-103 12:35:11 with a mailing list you lose the real-time interaction 03-02-103 12:35:20 true 03-02-103 12:35:22 But may have more input with a mailing list 03-02-103 12:35:27 One of the issues that came up in last week's meeting is, which network should the IRC be hosted on, if one is hosted. 03-02-103 12:35:49 And my concern is: would a WD support channel be "competing" with the existing ECS support IRC? 03-02-103 12:36:01 And does it make sense to compete or add another channel 03-02-103 12:36:04 good point 03-02-103 12:36:26 I don't think it does, staffing would be better just using existing channels. 03-02-103 12:37:18 I'm not sure that I know all the IRC channels/support channels out there, but it might get confusing to have one dedicated to ECS, and another dedicated to OS/2 minus ECS 03-02-103 12:37:51 eCS has some good things going for them: 03-02-103 12:38:02 1) they do have multiple web servers that point to the network 03-02-103 12:38:34 2) they have a pretty nice Java based IRC client that can be used by some confused, desparet person just wanting an answer to a question 03-02-103 12:39:04 * jer0 is annoyed too...can't get this Olympus D-360L to work with ThirdEye or DCITU 03-02-103 12:39:15 so did webbnet Doug.. before the DNS went down 03-02-103 12:39:40 I have used the Java based IRC when I got on to the ECS IRC support thingy very late one night some months ago 03-02-103 12:39:41 www.webbnet.org had a java applet 03-02-103 12:40:25 * WalterOS2 thinks OS2VOICE and Warpdoctor should have their web sites re-titled to indicate that they support both OS/2 and eCS. 03-02-103 12:40:55 WalterOS2: I agree with that idea 03-02-103 12:42:36 That doesn't represent a change in policy, just a reflection of what has always been our policy since eComStation came out. 03-02-103 12:42:55 eComStation is OS/2 03-02-103 12:44:48 anyways.. I was about to say.. I don't have a problem with with added to the VOICE site to reflect that we also support eCS 03-02-103 12:44:54 The vast majority of eCS and OS2 are the same, but there are differences, mainly in the installation and added packages 03-02-103 12:45:56 the installation is little smoother but that about it that i see. 03-02-103 12:46:17 Doug from a support standpoint though what works on OS/2 tends to also work on eCS. 03-02-103 12:47:37 I see the WD thrust as being a database of information about: hardware and devices, software installation, and how to documentation 03-02-103 12:47:51 only real problem i seen in eCS and OS/2 if you install Hoblink X11 from eCS and have OS/2 installed on same machine you better have a backup of OS/2 install. 03-02-103 12:48:00 I see the eCS support forum as a place for getting very specific answers to a particular question 03-02-103 12:48:50 If those very specific questions occur multiple times then they become a candidate for inclusion in the WD database 03-02-103 12:49:56 Hi eCSNL 03-02-103 12:50:05 not at all eCSNL 03-02-103 12:50:14 No, we're just getting warmed up, really. 03-02-103 12:50:34 Ahaa oke, I'm still working hard on the MMOS/2 stuff for eComStation 1.1 03-02-103 12:50:38 ecsNL - we were just discussing the issue you and I talked about last week 03-02-103 12:51:04 About a support channel for generic use on the eCS network ? 03-02-103 12:51:42 support channel or something else, and where. 03-02-103 12:52:24 eCSNL: good to hear progress on MMOS/2...I'm really anxiously looking forward to it when 1.1 is GA 03-02-103 12:55:11 ecsNL - do you think there needs to be a WD support channel in addition to the ECS support channel? 03-02-103 12:55:13 I think I made my point multiple times why such a chanel on eCS net would be a good thing, so I will no repeat it... 03-02-103 12:56:32 The warpdoctor channel is specificly to discuss technicall things related to Warpdoctor (database website etc) not 03-02-103 12:56:43 *GENEREAL* OS/2 eCS support I understood... 03-02-103 12:57:06 And this is why last week a vote was casted for the warpdoctor channel to remain on webbnet 03-02-103 12:57:41 very true - you are I were discussing last week at the end of the meeting a possible need for a support specific channel related to WD 03-02-103 12:58:00 which would be different from the regular/weekly WD meeting/channel 03-02-103 13:04:07 is Warpdoctor the group tasked with providing OS/2 or ECS support or is it VOICE in general 03-02-103 13:04:44 WarpDoctor is about databasing questions, and answers 03-02-103 13:04:45 Warpdoctor isn't up and running yet. :-( 03-02-103 13:05:13 So no group has been tasked with support yet. 03-02-103 13:05:21 hmm...well that is the same thing we're after right 03-02-103 13:05:23 I think the tasking to provide a database of answers for all OS/2 related systems, so it would include eCS 03-02-103 13:05:32 then are we not jumping the gun...?? 03-02-103 13:05:52 I would say "Yes" 03-02-103 13:05:55 why do we need to have another special forum then if Warpdoctor is it? 03-02-103 13:06:09 when the DAtabase is online and working then near that time we should look at a channel...etc...but not until then 03-02-103 13:06:26 that sounds like a logical approach 03-02-103 13:06:32 Lets get it working and focus our energy on that 03-02-103 13:06:52 why should we be getting distracted when there is still work to do on Warpdoctor? 03-02-103 13:07:13 Doug you need any help with getting the Database part running? 03-02-103 13:08:14 is there an outline of tasks that need to be done to get WarpDoctor online? 03-02-103 13:08:35 not a recent one. 03-02-103 13:09:14 that would be the first thing to do 03-02-103 13:09:34 We do have a system plan, and an order in which we are doing things. 03-02-103 13:09:55 is there a way to track the progress? 03-02-103 13:10:01 So we know where we are going and how we are going to get there. 03-02-103 13:10:10 or assign a new task? 03-02-103 13:10:32 and who is to carry out that task? 03-02-103 13:10:43 jer0 is asking good questions. Perhaps it is time to update our plan and republish 03-02-103 13:10:47 jer0: This is a small, informal group. We try not to operate like a large business. :-) 03-02-103 13:10:56 this sounds a bit familair... 03-02-103 13:11:21 Everybody ever looked in the bug tracker of ecomstation.com 03-02-103 13:11:28 Doug: is that really necessary? 03-02-103 13:11:32 to be blunt...large businesses get stuff done :) 03-02-103 13:11:39 (ecomstation.com is one big database) 03-02-103 13:11:45 large businesses have more employees 03-02-103 13:12:12 And a large budget. 03-02-103 13:12:24 well it is good to have a blueprint...even with a small group/large project 03-02-103 13:12:38 What is the problem to the website realy going ? 03-02-103 13:12:38 We may use bug tracker when we get closer to the end. 03-02-103 13:12:40 Walter - it wouldn't hurt a bit to update our schedule and put it out again. I will do that, but I don't know the mirror issues that are not related to the database 03-02-103 13:12:55 Its the database ? 03-02-103 13:13:07 Right now we have a lot of work to do before we get to that stage. 03-02-103 13:13:50 The mirror is up and running, gets synched at 2:00am et each day. 03-02-103 13:14:04 Doug: go ahead--just leave out the mirror stuff; or get together with Ken, whichever you prefer. :-) 03-02-103 13:14:06 Ok - that makes that part of the schedule easy 03-02-103 13:14:23 eCSNL - yes, the database is the part that is preventing the site from being "GA" 03-02-103 13:14:37 so how does one joining Warpdoctor know what to do to help the project? 03-02-103 13:14:45 Well where is the trouble in getting it running ? 03-02-103 13:14:56 What do you think Mensys runs on 03-02-103 13:15:08 Our company depends 100% on DB2... 03-02-103 13:15:13 Running on OS/2... 03-02-103 13:15:22 Where is the trouble in getting DB2 going... 03-02-103 13:15:29 volunteer your services and we'll try and put you to work. You can ask about the project and see what you can do to help. 03-02-103 13:15:34 You are both asking very good questions. We published a document about a year ago describing the goals of the project and a schedule 03-02-103 13:15:49 Or must a database still be designed ? 03-02-103 13:16:05 the schedule turned out to be - shall I say, a little optomistic 03-02-103 13:16:23 Sorry. No the design is mostly in place. 03-02-103 13:16:25 but the goals the general design are the same 03-02-103 13:16:46 I had database design at school but have been sleeping a lot (well not realy but programming was much nicer :-) ) 03-02-103 13:16:55 However, it is fairly complex, and it is taking awhile for Doug to do the programming. 03-02-103 13:16:58 I will update that document, along with the schedule and repost to the mailing list 03-02-103 13:17:11 Doug: that sounds good 03-02-103 13:17:51 I really got my hands full starting a new company...but I will see what I can do to help out 03-02-103 13:18:03 Thanks for the offer jer0 03-02-103 13:18:22 I'm afraid I need to much time for eCS.... 03-02-103 13:18:37 But my point with the database is that even for me DB2 , well looks easy... 03-02-103 13:19:08 Especialy with DB2 7.2 the user interface almost do much :-) 03-02-103 13:19:58 Where can I read the document about the database ? 03-02-103 13:20:16 eCSNL: Our design is not simple. You'll see when you get the document. 03-02-103 13:20:18 I will update and send out via mailing list 03-02-103 13:20:37 Doug: That 2:00 AM time for syncing sets off an alarm. 2:00 AM is also the time for daylight saving time changes. 03-02-103 13:20:49 Also, Doug has had to do some major work with browser interfacing along the way. 03-02-103 13:20:49 Is there a potential gotcha there? 03-02-103 13:23:23 Item B1: Status Reports 03-02-103 13:23:28 Gord - not a problem for the time change. 03-02-103 13:23:52 1a: Mirror/Co-host Project 03-02-103 13:24:05 Ken: where do we stand here? 03-02-103 13:24:10 I can help on with that 03-02-103 13:24:26 Go ahead RS - 03-02-103 13:24:27 need a CNAME Ken? 03-02-103 13:24:47 CNAME? 03-02-103 13:24:53 That would depend on what we want to do with the mirror. 03-02-103 13:25:18 If we want say: warpdoctor.fyrelizard.com Rat-Salad can add that into his DNS server. 03-02-103 13:25:46 As it is now, the mirrors are os2voice.easydns.us and warpdoctor.easydns.us. 03-02-103 13:26:17 But using a cname would allow for fallover and load balancing. 03-02-103 13:26:27 same here i fnee dhelp with dns i add some here also 03-02-103 13:27:17 The second part of it is that we are _supposed_ to have the T1 in this month, so everything may change. 03-02-103 13:27:21 now I don't see how it would help load balancing... when I said that I didn't know that you already had a subdomain for it 03-02-103 13:27:25 Would someone please tell me what CNAME stands for or means? :-) 03-02-103 13:27:52 WalterOS2: basically a CNAME is a DNS alias 03-02-103 13:27:57 It's a reference point for a DNS name 03-02-103 13:28:58 for example.. I could make a entry that says irc.va2.fyrelizard.com should go to irc.xrange.org 03-02-103 13:30:50 or.. preferably (a static IP works best for this) I could add a A record.. which is a regular DNS host entry... irc.va2.fyrelizard.com = 24.28.247.252 03-02-103 13:33:11 Ken: How's the T1 issue looking right now? 03-02-103 13:33:51 Well, we signed contracts 2/10. The provider's sla says 30 business days. That puts us in this month. 03-02-103 13:34:25 If they don't have us up in the 30 days, install is free..... 03-02-103 13:34:52 but seeing as how I got them to drop the charges anyway, it's not much of an impetus. 03-02-103 13:37:22 For those of you who don't know (e.g. eCSNL, jer0) Ken has generally offered OS2VOICE (and WarpDoctor) ISP services free of charge. 03-02-103 13:37:56 We've been holding off until Ken gets his own T1. 03-02-103 13:39:06 Though currently VOICE isn't paying anything for it, ISP hosting the VOICE server has changed hands and we haven't ever gotten any sort of agreement with them. 03-02-103 13:39:15 This is particularly important since VOICE's previous ISP sold his company, and right now our server's ISP status is very iffy. 03-02-103 13:40:03 In fact, the owner of the new company hasn't even returned my last email. 03-02-103 13:40:29 Luckily the server is still functioning and reachable. 03-02-103 13:40:53 eCSNL: 1) There really isn't a need for support yet. 03-02-103 13:41:13 2) We don't have extra staff. 03-02-103 13:41:58 Why is there no need for support yet ? 03-02-103 13:42:29 Second, the extra staff is not required, should people from voice be all the time on channel ? 03-02-103 13:42:31 because there isn't a implimented database yet? 03-02-103 13:42:47 If a company hasn't released a product (in our case, Warpdoctor), why would there be a need to support it? 03-02-103 13:43:03 The only idea was that people could chat somewhere.... 03-02-103 13:43:22 You don't need a database unless you want to log 24 hours a day all the traffic :-) 03-02-103 13:43:38 eCSNL: people from VOICE do tend to be present a lot of the time in the #voice channel, and when questions come up we do try and answer them. 03-02-103 13:43:41 one of the points of the support channel would be to record the users problems... and their solutions 03-02-103 13:43:45 The #warpdoctor and #voice channels on Webbnet are open 24/7. 03-02-103 13:44:05 My idea was you goto www.warpdoctor (database running or not) and click for as is support... 03-02-103 13:44:18 well... #warpdoctor isn't open 24/7 .. but #voice is 03-02-103 13:44:22 You'll have better luck in the #voice channel though, more people there more of the time. 03-02-103 13:44:37 And you could have the channel manned 24 hours if people at different time join 03-02-103 13:44:40 via ecs net.... 03-02-103 13:44:56 So you want to have a few people around the world 03-02-103 13:45:12 (Europe, North America) 03-02-103 13:45:26 Or more people that can watch to channel to record problems 03-02-103 13:45:35 and put he questions and answers in the database ? 03-02-103 13:45:51 RS: What do you #warpdoctor isn't open 24/7? I know there aren't always people here. When do you start it up? 03-02-103 13:46:04 eCSNL: Marvelous vision. But this is not the venue. 03-02-103 13:46:14 Channel exists, just most don't join until around the time of the meeting 03-02-103 13:46:23 usually Walter.. other than meeting time... #WarpDoctor consists of *me* 03-02-103 13:46:38 That's all I meant. 03-02-103 13:46:48 But I was atlking about a genereal support channel for OS/2 and eCS for normal users and thats what on the agenda for today... 03-02-103 13:46:53 ok... so sure.. in a since it is open 24/7 03-02-103 13:47:27 But not manned 24 hours /7 because most people on this channel join from the US.... 03-02-103 13:47:51 When its 17:00 here in Holland 03-02-103 13:47:57 Its 09:00 in California 03-02-103 13:48:02 Is there a channel dedicated to support in WebNet? 03-02-103 13:48:24 #VOICE is a support channel 03-02-103 13:48:31 Anyway, by Warpdoctor support I didn't think Doug meant a #warpdoctor channel. I thought he meant a channel dedicated to the support of the Warpdoctor "product". 03-02-103 13:48:45 Doug, yes SCOUG (Souther California OS/2 Users Group) has a help desk every Wednesday night. For one dedicated to support. 03-02-103 13:49:18 No - actually eCSNL and I were on the same wave length. I was meaning a general OS/2 support channel 03-02-103 13:49:40 Is SCOUG on webNet? 03-02-103 13:49:43 Yes 03-02-103 13:49:57 #scoug (usually only somebody there Wednesday nights) 03-02-103 13:50:03 Doug: If you meant OS2 support, then why use the term "Warpdoctor"? 03-02-103 13:50:33 That was one of my questions about doing it. Does it make sense for WarpDoctor to be doing it. 03-02-103 13:56:56 B1B: Hardware Compatibility List 03-02-103 13:57:30 Gord,wdl: Do you have a form ready for us? 03-02-103 13:59:11 I don't. Sent my own stuff to (??). Haven't heard from him or anyone since. 03-02-103 14:00:08 WalterOS2: Whoever was doing the HTML / page coding? Don't rtemember the name - sorry. 03-02-103 14:00:14 I think wdl was invited to send his form to Rat-Salad. 03-02-103 14:00:30 Sounds right... 03-02-103 14:00:48 RS: Did you get wdl's form? 03-02-103 14:01:18 I have it yes... but I haven't had time to make it... "real" 03-02-103 14:02:18 OK, thx. Would you WarpedOS2 to help you out since you're busy with your housee? 03-02-103 14:02:31 Would you like 03-02-103 14:02:35 I could do it. Need the "original" as a guide. I'd think that would be a better way that my "sketch" offering. 03-02-103 14:03:27 RS: Please send your form/email to wdl. 03-02-103 14:04:10 wdl: I take it you lost your original in your disk crash. 03-02-103 14:04:47 Haven't looked for it. Recovery was prt' near complete 03-02-103 14:05:01 I can forward it back to wdl if needed 03-02-103 14:05:04 But it was a skethch/outline. Niot HTML. 03-02-103 14:05:23 AArgh! Aphasia = bad typing... 03-02-103 14:06:30 wdl: Would you like Rat-Salad to do that? 03-02-103 14:07:08 If he/someone would just send the original page... Or I guess I could capture the WD page??? 03-02-103 14:08:24 Rat-Salad: Please send it back to him. 03-02-103 14:11:04 OK, well we're past meeting close time. 03-02-103 14:11:20 Anyone care to move we adjourn? 03-02-103 14:11:28 Motion to adjourn 03-02-103 14:11:47 All in favour of adjourning, type Aye. 03-02-103 14:11:55 Aye 03-02-103 14:11:55 Aye. 03-02-103 14:11:59 Aye 03-02-103 14:12:01 aye 03-02-103 14:12:05 Aye 03-02-103 14:12:33 All opposed, please type Nay 03-02-103 14:12:39 Nay 03-02-103 14:13:00 The Ayes have it. 03-02-103 14:13:07 The motion is carried. 03-02-103 14:13:13 Meeting is adjourned.