01-26-103 12:11:07 A1: Status Reports 01-26-103 12:11:29 a: Hardware Compatibility Matrix 01-26-103 12:12:14 You were going to get some kind of a draft entry form ready. Did you manage to get something read? 01-26-103 12:12:17 Gord, you go... 01-26-103 12:12:22 read=ready 01-26-103 12:12:43 I believe wdl did some work on this. 01-26-103 12:13:28 Oh well, OK. 01-26-103 12:14:12 I made a line-numbered text file of the relevant HCL: entry pages, made suggestions, and sent all that to Gord. 01-26-103 12:14:43 Am waiting to see whether or no he/I have a mind-meld on that/those. 01-26-103 12:15:14 So Far, he seems to agree, but has suggested an addition or two. 01-26-103 12:15:31 I think we are not well enough coordinated yet to trip over each other. 01-26-103 12:15:52 Can you show us something? 01-26-103 12:16:19 I can cut and past into my input window. Will that do? Or work? 01-26-103 12:16:39 If the lines aren't too long. 01-26-103 12:16:56 Hang on while I snuffle through my stuff. 01-26-103 12:18:34 This may take a while... 01-26-103 12:20:59 About how long...? 01-26-103 12:21:22 Here's one: 01-26-103 12:21:56 This is the present Warp Doctor page at 01-26-103 12:21:56 http://www.warpdoctor.org/hcl/input.html . 01-26-103 12:21:56 To try adding clarity to our and others' discussion, I've added Line ##. 01-26-103 12:21:56 ____________________________________________________________________ 01-26-103 12:21:56 01 In the case of devices which use a specific computer interface, such as USB, an 01-26-103 12:21:57 02 internal card or Bluetooth please include it in the additional information field. 01-26-103 12:21:59 03 01-26-103 12:22:01 04 01-26-103 12:22:03 05 Is this device usable?: (*)Yes ()Partially ()No 01-26-103 12:22:05 06 01-26-103 12:22:07 07 *Hardware Manufacturer: [ 01-26-103 12:23:17 ] 01-26-103 12:23:18 08 *Product Model [ ] 01-26-103 12:23:18 09 Manufacturer URL: [http:// ] 01-26-103 12:23:18 10 Did Manufacturer 01-26-103 12:23:18 11 provide OS/2 drivers?: ()Yes 01-26-103 12:25:21 ok.. you guys need me to set up a form? 01-26-103 12:25:37 There should be an " -eof " at the end. I didn't have that showing here on the bounce-back 01-26-103 12:25:51 . 01-26-103 12:25:52 . 01-26-103 12:25:52 . 01-26-103 12:25:59 Her's another... 01-26-103 12:26:20 This is the present Warp Doctor page at 01-26-103 12:26:20 http://www.warpdoctor.org/hcl/linput.html . 01-26-103 12:26:20 To try adding clarity to our and others' discussion, I've added Line ##. 01-26-103 12:26:20 ____________________________________________________________________ 01-26-103 12:26:20 01 You may send it as a text file using this format: 01-26-103 12:26:21 02 01-26-103 12:26:23 03 -- Usable Devices: 01-26-103 12:26:24 04 Hardware Manufacturer: 01-26-103 12:26:27 05 Manufacturer Web Page: 01-26-103 12:26:28 06 Product Description: 01-26-103 12:26:30 07 Came with OS/2 Drivers: 01-26-103 12:26:33 08 Additional Information: 01-26-103 12:26:34 09 Hardware Manufacturer: 01-26-103 12:26:37 10 Product Description: 01-26-103 12:26:39 OS/2 Drivers: 01-26-103 12:26:41 12 Additional Information: 01-26-103 12:26:43 13 01-26-103 12:26:45 14 -- Partially Usable Devices: 01-26-103 12:26:47 15 Hardware Manufacturer: 01-26-103 12:26:49 16 Product Description: 01-26-103 12:26:50 17 Came with OS/2 Drivers: 01-26-103 12:26:52 18 Additional Information: 01-26-103 12:26:54 19 01-26-103 12:26:56 20 -- Non-compatible Devices: 01-26-103 12:26:58 21 Hardware Manufacturer: 01-26-103 12:27:00 22 Product Description: 01-26-103 12:27:03 23 Came with OS/2 Drivers: 01-26-103 12:27:05 24 Additional Information: 01-26-103 12:27:06 25 01-26-103 12:27:09 26 Submitted by: 01-26-103 12:27:11 27 E-mail: 01-26-103 12:27:13 28 Date: / /2001 01-26-103 12:27:15 29 01-26-103 12:27:17 30 Unless otherwise noted, all content on this site is Copyright (C) 2000, 2001, |VOICE| 01-26-103 12:27:19 _________________ 01-26-103 12:27:21 ______________________________ 01-26-103 12:27:23 NB: 01-26-103 12:27:25 vertical bars " | " bracketing a word mean the included word is "clickable". 01-26-103 12:27:27 I believe changes are needed: 01-26-103 12:27:29 A new Line 3a: " On which Version and FixPak of OS/2?: ", to correspond to the (proposed) new Line 5a on the input page. 01-26-103 12:27:32 01-26-103 12:27:33 Line 7 needs changing, to reflect all (proposed) changes on the input page Line 11 et seq.. 01-26-103 12:27:35 Lines 8-12 are redundant and should be removed. 01-26-103 12:27:37 Lines 3, 14, and 20 should be combined into one Line 3 " Is the Device Usable ( 01-26-103 12:27:40 Usable (P), on Incompatible(I)?:" 01-26-103 12:27:42 Add a new Line 3a: 01-26-103 12:27:44 *If* that's done, then all the Lines 14-25 are redundant, and should be removed. 01-26-103 12:27:46 Line 27 should indicate the e-mail address is REQUIRED. 01-26-103 12:27:48 Somewhere should be added a note that the required e-mail address is protected from prying eyes. 01-26-103 12:27:50 Line 28 shouldn't have any part of the date "hardwired". 01-26-103 12:27:52 -eof 01-26-103 12:27:58 Rat-Salad: We need a form/forms eventually. But all here should approve (or not)?? 01-26-103 12:28:16 And Gord had a suggestion or two *not* herein shown. 01-26-103 12:28:25 there's plenty of time to decide exactly what we want 01-26-103 12:29:02 How about putting it up then we can make adjustments if needed. 01-26-103 12:29:29 I would suggest that Usable be replaced by Compatible. 01-26-103 12:29:59 I think Usable is fine 01-26-103 12:30:07 In fact you might want Fully Compatible, Partially Compatible, and Incompatible. 01-26-103 12:30:33 Ok, it was just a suggestion. :-) 01-26-103 12:31:53 or.... 01-26-103 12:32:06 there could be a rating system of how well the device works 01-26-103 12:32:11 like from 1 to 5 01-26-103 12:32:40 But what determines the rating¿ While some might give it a 2, that might be all the next person needs. 01-26-103 12:32:41 it's alright thats what we're here for.. to throw some ideas around 01-26-103 12:32:43 I think Walter's scale is usable. A number scale gets complicated. 01-26-103 12:33:53 If you allow "Incompatible", then you need to state the rater's equipment? Others might have different, which might allow the device to work? 01-26-103 12:34:17 I don't think incompatible should be a choice 01-26-103 12:34:37 it's the hardware compatiblity list... not the hardware incompatiblity list 01-26-103 12:35:00 Perhaps, under partially compatible, you would specify something like "works on which equipment" 01-26-103 12:35:19 Could let others know what's been tried though, rather then someone finding out only after they purchase something. 01-26-103 12:35:21 RS has a point. 01-26-103 12:35:23 I agree with RS - you need to either not list any incompatible equipment - or put it in a special category 01-26-103 12:36:56 Some HW is going to not work for some people, but work for others. 01-26-103 12:36:57 Would that be where having the rater's email address would be important? Allow direct questions (filtered through WarpDoc, of course)?? 01-26-103 12:37:24 I believe so wdl 01-26-103 12:37:41 that's a good idea 01-26-103 12:37:43 Mark: Obvious, but still necessary to point out. :-) 01-26-103 12:37:50 I suspect there will be more problems with software working for some and not for others 01-26-103 12:38:35 allowing email questions would depend on the submitter preference 01-26-103 12:38:45 wouldn't it? 01-26-103 12:38:56 Yes 01-26-103 12:38:57 What kind of questions/categories should we put under partially-compatible? 01-26-103 12:39:52 perhaps ask for an explanation of which parts of the hardware work and which parts don't? 01-26-103 12:40:01 in the Remarks 01-26-103 12:40:24 Doug: good idea. 01-26-103 12:40:27 I think we may also want a field for install instructions, if needed 01-26-103 12:40:51 Should have a freeform comments field for anything not covered. 01-26-103 12:41:25 Usually that is straightforward - but for Odin (win32) or WinOS2 based drivers there might need to be some installation help 01-26-103 12:42:10 straightforward:--have you tried installed USB lately? :-) 01-26-103 12:42:26 Hear, here!! 01-26-103 12:42:54 Some devices are worse than others, though. 01-26-103 12:42:58 Walter: You get that USB drive working yet? 01-26-103 12:43:27 I find USB devices to be iffy. SOmetimes they work, sometimes they don't. 01-26-103 12:43:53 No. According to Chris W.'s manual/readme, my device is not compatible with the drivers. :-( 01-26-103 12:43:58 my usb trackball is like playing a game of russian roulette 01-26-103 12:45:11 My one multireader only works on my Toshiba laptop with really old USB basic and USBMSD drivers. Doesn't work on any other machine or with the latest drivers. 01-26-103 12:45:13 Chris W=Chris Wohlgemuth 01-26-103 12:45:48 sometimes it works when I boot up... but sometimes it takes two or three boots to have a working mouse 01-26-103 12:45:49 My CF reader works most of the time, but its sporadic, and it doesn't work at all on my toshiba laptop. 01-26-103 12:45:58 Mark: I suspect my mobo is also causing problems. 01-26-103 12:46:24 Any, let's get back on topic. 01-26-103 12:47:19 I suggest we let wdl and Gord go back and revise their form based on the input they received here. 01-26-103 12:47:30 Plus Gord's suggestion. 01-26-103 12:47:46 Then RS can create an actual form. 01-26-103 12:59:10 Are there any questions about the input form? 01-26-103 12:59:41 OK, let's move to: 01-26-103 13:00:12 A1b: Mirror/Co-Host Project 01-26-103 13:00:45 Ken, can you give us an update? 01-26-103 13:01:07 First, what's the address of the mirror? 01-26-103 13:01:09 I've got the whole Warpdoctor site transferred.. 01-26-103 13:01:39 The VOCE site should be transferred tonite. 01-26-103 13:02:16 I've seen that there will be some differences in local drive/directory issues to resolve. 01-26-103 13:03:13 The first thing I saw was that some of the scripts refer to a different drive than I have the site on. 01-26-103 13:03:54 Ken, does the mirror have an URL? 01-26-103 13:04:02 So, for instance, the irclog script fails. 01-26-103 13:04:28 Ken - which drive letter is the mirror installed on? 01-26-103 13:04:29 We don't have a url yet , just the 216.25.144.123 IP address 01-26-103 13:04:32 on your machine 01-26-103 13:04:46 That is a URL 01-26-103 13:04:53 I have everything on local D:, the site is on e: 01-26-103 13:05:16 Well, I meant like www.mirror.warpdoctor.org ;) 01-26-103 13:05:18 Do you have a drive E on your machine? 01-26-103 13:05:27 Don't need it 01-26-103 13:05:43 Yes, but it's a temp drive. 01-26-103 13:05:51 I see it! 01-26-103 13:06:33 I was going to say - if you weren't using drive E you could map D to E on your machine, which would allow you to refer to the drive by either letter, and therefor not have to modify the scripts any 01-26-103 13:07:02 Might make like easier 01-26-103 13:07:08 life 01-26-103 13:07:32 II am thinking of just putting it all on e: anyway. But there will be other things. 01-26-103 13:08:16 There are some search directives which use s: as a work drive, but I don't have those programs. 01-26-103 13:09:18 You could also map S back to E if you needed 01-26-103 13:09:21 And I still need to find a way to simulate the virtual hosts if there is no real url passed. 01-26-103 13:09:27 net use s: \\yourServer\e 01-26-103 13:09:30 for example 01-26-103 13:09:37 S: is my system drive ;) 01-26-103 13:09:43 Why do you need virtual hosts¿ 01-26-103 13:10:06 To mirror both VOICE and Warpdoctor. 01-26-103 13:10:46 No you don't 01-26-103 13:11:24 I may be able to alis the home directories, but I haven't gotten it to work yet. 01-26-103 13:11:31 alis = alias 01-26-103 13:12:25 You don't need virtual hosts. All that's need is: 01-26-103 13:12:32 address/warpdoctor or address/voice 01-26-103 13:13:04 Will that work for WebExplorer too? Even on the main site? 01-26-103 13:13:10 Yes, but what to set Apache root to? 01-26-103 13:14:47 Hmmm, might be able to get it to work on the main site. The need for vitual hosting is due to having two seperate address pointing to the same address. 01-26-103 13:15:03 Root is normal, just have /voice and /warpdoctor under root. 01-26-103 13:15:12 When I tried that way, the various subdirs weren't mapped correctly, all came from Apache root. 01-26-103 13:16:06 So, for example, public_html/files in warpdoctor ended up looking in root/files. 01-26-103 13:19:11 Sector: Isn't there a way to set one of the Apache config files to convert www.warpdoctor.org into www.voice.org/warpdoctor? 01-26-103 13:20:15 Might be, haven't messed with Apache lately 01-26-103 13:20:33 Only if you can alias the directories. 01-26-103 13:20:47 (as far as I can see)] 01-26-103 13:21:31 I've got to go now, but it also may help to use DynDNS.org. I'll be looking into that as well. 01-26-103 13:21:42 dyndns.org isn't needed 01-26-103 13:22:53 Sector: then how do you do it, without having the user type www.os2voice.org/warpdoctor? 01-26-103 13:23:25 www.os2voice.org/warpdoctor is not what we are doing. 01-26-103 13:24:21 A1c: DB2 Engine 01-26-103 13:24:21 In the case of a mirror, the person is still going to need the URL for the mirror, that can be address/voice for the voice mirror and address/warpdoctor for the warpdoctor mirror. 01-26-103 13:24:59 Doug: Do you have any update? 01-26-103 13:25:22 I have been working on an "editor" for adding information to the database 01-26-103 13:25:43 I posted a few screen shots of what it looks like so far at ftp://www.warpdoctor.org 01-26-103 13:26:06 edit0.gif - edit7.gif - if anyone wants to see 01-26-103 13:26:49 Opps edit1.gif - edit7.gif 01-26-103 13:27:07 The database consists of two main tables: menu and content 01-26-103 13:27:43 The menu table defines the "structure" of the site - meaning the structure that is "navigated" through to get to the content 01-26-103 13:27:52 The Content table stores the actual content 01-26-103 13:28:40 As you can see from the first screen shot - there will need to be 5 different "forms" or screens for inputing content - one for each of the main categories 01-26-103 13:29:24 there will be two "levels" of users: normal and adminstrative. Adminstrative users can modify the Menu table. 01-26-103 13:29:37 Normal users can only add content - i.e. rows to the Content table. 01-26-103 13:29:58 Each row in the Content table MUST link to an item in the menu table 01-26-103 13:30:21 edit2.gif shows that menu structure expanded somewhat 01-26-103 13:30:35 clear so far? 01-26-103 13:31:35 The editor shown in the screen shots will work either as a plug-in, or in stand-alone mode 01-26-103 13:32:00 It will also access the database either through the plug-in API or directly via the DB2 client 01-26-103 13:32:37 Menu items can be moved by dragging to a new location. Content can be added by dragging a file the menu item where it is to be added 01-26-103 13:32:57 Right clicking on the menu item and selecting add, etc. 01-26-103 13:33:31 I will also include some OS/2 templates for dragging to the editor for added different types of content, i.e. a template for HTML, one for PDF, etc. 01-26-103 13:34:39 My plan is to allow "basic" input from WebExplorer - meaning no plug-in required. 01-26-103 13:35:10 Basic input means only HTML typed into a browser screen - or pasted into the browser screen. And no images called out in the HTML 01-26-103 13:35:24 More sophisticated content will require the plug-in. 01-26-103 13:36:00 Editing the Menu table - or adding new menu items/categories will require the plug-in 01-26-103 13:36:27 These limitations should be printed on the form either "out in open" or under a "Details" button. 01-26-103 13:37:04 limitations=restrictions 01-26-103 13:37:12 They will be - the content will also be checked before being inserted into the database for any embedded graphics 01-26-103 13:38:02 Good. I hate surprises. Finding out a character is not allowed only after I've hit "Submit" :-) 01-26-103 13:38:56 Well..... unfortunately, since WebExplorer doesn't support JavaScript, the content can't be checked until it gets to the server, meaning after the SUBMIT button is pressed 01-26-103 13:39:08 But well will give them a good error message 01-26-103 13:39:56 No, but you can say "JavaScript not permitted" in the text of the form. 01-26-103 13:40:50 I don't think the average user is going to be typing in very complicated HTML - or any HTML for that fact 01-26-103 13:41:35 You can't make assumptions about what users. :-) 01-26-103 13:41:43 But generally I agree. 01-26-103 13:41:58 In order to mirror WD we will have to have a database on the mirror machine 01-26-103 13:42:04 users=users may do. 01-26-103 13:42:15 Who said the users where average¿ 01-26-103 13:42:31 I believe Ken said that he has DB2 v 4 - which I think is basically the same as v 2 01-26-103 13:43:02 neaning that it doesn't have triggers or an outer join syntax in the SQL capabilities 01-26-103 13:43:44 Refresh my memory as to outer join. 01-26-103 13:43:46 It would be easier if v 5 was installed on both machines, it is is probably possible to make the thing work writing for version 2 01-26-103 13:44:19 outer join means - give me ALL rows in table1 plus rows that match in table2 01-26-103 13:44:35 Normal join means - give me all rows in table1 that match table 2 01-26-103 13:45:08 Thx. 01-26-103 13:45:17 You can write SQL that accomplishes an outer join and have it work in v 2. I have done that before. It is just a pain to do so 01-26-103 13:45:39 because you can't use the OUTER JOIN token/key words 01-26-103 13:47:15 I am still somewhat worried about using "normal" apache with CGI, as opposed to using IBM apache 01-26-103 13:47:57 But I guess we can just find out how it works 01-26-103 13:48:57 lastly - I probably need to get SSH set up and working. Any chance of RS helping me with that tonight? 01-26-103 13:49:13 I thought we decided to use IBM Apache, but that our first attempt to convert bombed because we didn't plan/coordinate it properly. 01-26-103 13:49:15 Or someone else later? 01-26-103 13:49:46 we did. But I don't think it has ever been switch over. 01-26-103 13:49:50 Doug: Sector can probably help you. 01-26-103 13:49:54 sure Doug... we can do that 01-26-103 13:50:37 Doug: That's one of things we still need to do. 01-26-103 13:51:27 Doug: you could use Zoc 01-26-103 13:51:37 I have ZOC 01-26-103 13:51:56 I could use it. Is it easier than the "freeware" package? 01-26-103 13:52:38 Do I need anything from you RS to get going? 01-26-103 13:52:41 easier to setup 01-26-103 13:52:44 Doug..the latest version of Zoc has SSH 01-26-103 13:53:04 Let me go see what version I have. 01-26-103 13:53:31 4.10 is the latest Doug.. 01-26-103 13:53:41 Doug: re. DB2: I think we should ask Ken if he can/will upgrade to what we are using. 01-26-103 13:54:14 btw.... I know a little trick :) 01-26-103 13:55:10 with the ftp.exe that comes with os/2... 01-26-103 13:55:31 login to voice1.. and type ! 01-26-103 13:55:53 What version of DB2 is currently on VOICE1? 01-26-103 13:56:54 RS - looks like that will work just fine 01-26-103 13:57:36 I think we have v 5 on VOICE1 01-26-103 13:58:06 Ken can't upgrade to v 5 because it no longer available 01-26-103 13:58:18 ! will drop you to a command prompt on VOICE1 on the FTPD 01-26-103 13:58:38 Doug: Is there a version he can upgrade to? 01-26-103 13:59:16 Good question. IBM has stopped porting DB2 to OS/2. The latest version, 8.x, doesn't run on OS/2 01-26-103 13:59:42 I don't know if anyone can buy v 7 anymore. Certainly v 5 is not available throught normal channels 01-26-103 14:00:06 eBay seems to have various versions of DB2 for sale occasionally 01-26-103 14:00:19 I have a complete version of 7.1 on my hard drive. :-) 01-26-103 14:01:03 There was a time when you could download a copy of DB2 v 7 personal for free 01-26-103 14:01:26 I don't know what the license restrictions were. DB2 Personal does not allow connections from external machines 01-26-103 14:01:47 or rather, connections from any machine other than the one DB2 is running on 01-26-103 14:02:19 If DB2 is running on the same machine as the web server, this is not a problem for WD serving pages 01-26-103 14:02:37 but it makes life more difficult to support from a distance 01-26-103 14:03:13 DB2 v7.2 is still on IBM's developer site 01-26-103 14:04:08 It may be that 8.x isn't released yet. I just got a DB2 magazine talking about v 8, but I haven't look at it in detail 01-26-103 14:04:43 An alternative is to not use DB2 on the mirror. Rather use something different, like SQL Anywhere, or Oracle 01-26-103 14:04:53 or dBase files 01-26-103 14:05:11 IS 8.x going to be available to OS/2? as 8.1 is already out for other plateforms 01-26-103 14:05:38 My understanding is that v 7 is the last DB2 version ported to OS/2 01-26-103 14:06:27 my understanding too.. 01-26-103 14:07:30 I personally think that v 5 is the sweet spot for DB2, but not being able to buy the latest version makes it more difficult to load DB2 on new machines - difficult because of being able to purchase the software. 01-26-103 14:08:38 not being able to purchase the software... 01-26-103 14:08:53 through normal channels 01-26-103 14:09:26 yeah - not 01-26-103 14:09:58 Of course you all know my opinion about software that is no longer sold or supported 01-26-103 14:13:36 There is a download for a Fixpak for V.2 at ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/ps/products/db2/fixes/english-us/db2os2v5/FP17_WR21287/ 01-26-103 14:13:39 I'll write the stuff for v 5 of DB2. If we need to change it then we can change it 01-26-103 14:13:49 This appears to take it to level 5.0 01-26-103 14:14:33 IOW, IBM appears to be still selling/providing fixpaks for those who already own DB2. 01-26-103 14:15:04 The readme says it is a fix pak for version 5.2 01-26-103 14:15:30 Generally the major version numbers indicate features, the minor numbers indicate fixes 01-26-103 14:15:41 So version 5 has the features, v 5.2 has the fixes 01-26-103 14:16:03 Go back to http://www-3.ibm.com/cgi-bin/db2www/data/db2/udb/winos2unix/support/index.d2w/report 01-26-103 14:16:25 I could be wrong, I suppose. 01-26-103 14:17:16 move to adjorn 01-26-103 14:17:32 All in favour, type Aye. 01-26-103 14:17:39 Aye 01-26-103 14:18:50 Opposed, type Nay. 01-26-103 14:18:58 Carried. 01-26-103 14:19:06 Meeting adjourned.