03-24-102 12:10:16 This meeting of WarpDoctor is now in session. 03-24-102 12:10:38 Sector, you taking the log? 03-24-102 12:11:10 Agenda Item 3: Old Business 03-24-102 12:12:14 But of course 03-24-102 12:24:32 Agenda Item 4: Status 03-24-102 12:25:16 a. Web site: Jeremy 03-24-102 12:25:38 I'm guessing you haven't had time to do anything; am I right? 03-24-102 12:26:33 yeah you're right.. I've been busy 03-24-102 12:28:06 b. Database Engine: Doug, you've got the floor: 03-24-102 12:28:10 and it may be a while before I can do more with the WD site 03-24-102 12:28:23 Understood. 03-24-102 12:28:43 I have finished writing the last part - and got it to compile last night. I have to test it 03-24-102 12:28:50 and fix any bugs I wrote 03-24-102 12:29:30 This week my mom is coming into town, and my kids are on spring break so it will be a slow week 03-24-102 12:33:26 Do you have anything else? 03-24-102 12:33:41 nope 03-24-102 12:34:14 Agenda Item 5: New Business 03-24-102 12:35:40 a. You may have caught some msgs where Dr. Martinus, author of the Notebook/2 site, was looking for a new site to host his web site. 03-24-102 12:36:39 I wrote him expressing an interest, and asking a couple of preliminary questions, especially since he wanted complete access to our DB2 engine. 03-24-102 12:37:49 I guess he didn't like my questions. :-) Unfortunately, diplomacy is not one of my strengths. :-( 03-24-102 12:38:15 The next thing I heard, he is going to host his site at os2world.com 03-24-102 12:39:46 Martinus has stopped using OS/2 as his main system at home, and this limited the amount of time he would be able to spend on the site. I expressed some concerned about how up-to-date he would be able to keep it. 03-24-102 12:41:20 Its tto bad that we couldn't snag his site, but you tried 03-24-102 12:41:27 Any comments? 03-24-102 12:41:55 well nothing we can do if he didn't like the offer on the table 03-24-102 12:42:48 I don't want WarpDoctor to become a collection of marginal sites which aren't updated sufficiently. 03-24-102 12:43:14 understandable 03-24-102 12:43:23 yes...I agree...walter 03-24-102 12:43:37 Given Dr. Martinus's change in direction, I foresee that happening to his. 03-24-102 12:46:42 This led me to another idea. 03-24-102 12:48:28 b. Should we consider setting up mirrors in WarpDoctor of external sites? 03-24-102 12:48:32 WarpDoctor has came a long way.. and we do intend to take it much further 03-24-102 12:49:55 OS2World would be one possible such site. 03-24-102 12:50:21 Mirrors - as in hosting a copy of their data on our machine? 03-24-102 12:51:59 I'll need a bit of help here. A concrete example of a mirror would be the mirror of Hobbes that *used* to be on the Supersite. 03-24-102 12:52:47 Pretend we're the Supersite. Is data actually transferred or is it done with links and pointers? 03-24-102 12:52:51 I think that we should mirror/store/archive OS/2 software and drivers that exist on other sites 03-24-102 12:53:04 to reflect their site contents 03-24-102 12:53:25 I also think that we should try and reach agreement with other sites about sharing content on the topics that WD will concentrate on 03-24-102 12:53:45 Doug, exactly what I have in mind. 03-24-102 12:54:11 But I think that is not everything - I am looking at OS2world now and trying to figure out what they have that would be appropriate for WD 03-24-102 12:54:43 But I did run across a russian site a few weeks ago that has alot of stuff that I think fits into WD 03-24-102 12:54:57 In Russian? 03-24-102 12:55:12 OS2World has Linux and OS/2 (and possibly W** stuff). Clearly we only want the OS/2 stuff. 03-24-102 12:55:14 The parts I saw were in English 03-24-102 12:55:33 The Russians are doing a LOT of good work in OS/2 these days. 03-24-102 12:55:34 I don't think we want the news - for instance 03-24-102 12:56:00 We already have a good news site ourselves. 03-24-102 12:56:06 I think the news would be the main thing too 03-24-102 12:56:17 and I am not familiar enough to know what else they have 03-24-102 12:56:56 news is handled through VOICE isn't it? 03-24-102 12:57:20 and as I have said many times before... the Hobbes archive is backed up on voice1.. and wouldn't take much to get up to date with the current hobbes site 03-24-102 12:57:21 WarpDoctor is one of the very few sites that has ONLY OS2/eCS material on it. 03-24-102 12:57:33 Would it be possible to have a search engine at warpdoctor that goes out and searches these other sites when you have a problem? 03-24-102 12:57:36 The VOICE News list is running off our server 03-24-102 12:57:37 I think it would be nice to have something unique to WD, although sharing is a good idea. 03-24-102 12:59:00 I sorta thought of WD as where people go to get information about how to fix hardware/software on OS/2 03-24-102 12:59:07 I would like to see the VOICE News list headlines on the WD site (automated of course) 03-24-102 12:59:11 Kimre: As I said, WD is uniquely OS2/eCS. The only other North American site like that is Hobbes. 03-24-102 12:59:21 and where information/reference material on OS/2 is located 03-24-102 13:00:49 Once the DB2 engine is running, I think we (and our clientelle) will really see the uniqueness of WD.) 03-24-102 13:01:01 answer to pilot - because of the way we search the best we could probably do is to point the user at an external search engine 03-24-102 13:01:19 There is no other site that is problem/cure oriented, that I'm aware of at least. 03-24-102 13:01:21 The approach fixing the problems is important also. An outline for the solution might be OK for experts. But some may prefer step by step instructions. 03-24-102 13:01:35 Agreed. 03-24-102 13:02:35 Doug, Rat: How far can the automation of the mirroring operation be taken once it is set up. 03-24-102 13:03:00 IOW, how much manual attention will it need? 03-24-102 13:03:45 bluesky - if we could get other sites to agree, and agree on formats, we could exchange data with mimimal work 03-24-102 13:04:00 but someone always has to read the stuff to make sure that it is ok 03-24-102 13:04:19 Rat knows better about the FTP mirroring 03-24-102 13:05:33 hmm as for like mirroring the hobbes archive.. could probably fix up a script to call wget once every 12 hours or something 03-24-102 13:06:43 What about the formatting/verification problem that Doug mentioned? 03-24-102 13:08:19 mirroring FTP files wouldn't require much/any verification or formatting - other than where to place the files 03-24-102 13:08:30 mirroring information is more difficult 03-24-102 13:08:56 right 03-24-102 13:09:40 Could you please elaborate on the difference? 03-24-102 13:09:49 on formatting for instance - it would be easier to exchange information with other sites that are running php for example because we know their information is stored in a database 03-24-102 13:10:17 Sites that are running pure html would require some kind of converter program to cram the html into our database 03-24-102 13:10:42 Then you have the problem of ascertaining the topic of the information and putting it in the correct place 03-24-102 13:11:23 finally you have the format of the incoming information - if WD has some unique presentation requirements the incoming stuff would have to be reformatted for presentation 03-24-102 13:12:32 The russian site I was looking at seems to have a lot of info about eComStation and they are running php 03-24-102 13:13:03 It would be nice if we all (all the sites that is) could take advantage of user input of information about hardware and software problems 03-24-102 13:15:37 php is a language that is built in to a web server. The language is used for formatting dynamic web pages 03-24-102 13:15:55 Usually by getting information from a database - which also is usually mySQL 03-24-102 13:16:24 Sorta the unix equiv of ASP - which is Microsoft's language for web page creation 03-24-102 13:17:21 Doug, do you think we should use php on the wd site? 03-24-102 13:17:24 when we get done we will have built the equiv - functionally - of php or ASP. Except ours will work with any ODBC database and with C++ 03-24-102 13:17:36 I need to learn what PHP means too... :-) 03-24-102 13:18:06 you can do a lot of cool things with php actually.. 03-24-102 13:18:11 My opinion on PHP is that it limits us to a specific web server and/or database. 03-24-102 13:18:29 php is installed on VOICE1 03-24-102 13:19:20 * Walter Doug is writing his own, but better, version of php! 03-24-102 13:19:43 we are quickly getting past what I know on PHP, but I believe that php gets its performance boost from close integration to both the database and the web server 03-24-102 13:20:10 yeah 03-24-102 13:20:22 Although php is being ported to different web servers and databases, I think it will lose a lot of its speed - which really is its sole advantage 03-24-102 13:20:31 Anyhow, I think we are getting OT. 03-24-102 13:20:55 how is this OT? 03-24-102 13:21:36 rat - you remember that there currently is not a php implementation for the IBM version of apache 03-24-102 13:22:06 I thought the current one would work 03-24-102 13:22:43 I don't think so - php has to exist as a callable routine (DLL in OS/2 words) that is integrated to the web server 03-24-102 13:23:00 yeah 03-24-102 13:23:02 the DLL is loaded by the web server and executed when the server encounters php stuff in a page 03-24-102 13:24:00 This integration usually requires that the compilers be in the same universe. Apache uses GCC/EMX - IBM Apache uses VisualAge 03-24-102 13:28:54 I would like to suggest that WD have a fairly narrow focus. 03-24-102 13:29:15 That we keep WD narrow and add other portal - domains - IP address - for other content 03-24-102 13:29:41 And make the VOICE web site the "index" into the other site(s) that we have. 03-24-102 13:30:01 domains or sub-domains? 03-24-102 13:30:15 either 03-24-102 13:30:37 I mean what people type to get to the site, e.g. warpdoctor.org means info about hardware/software problems 03-24-102 13:30:42 Domains cost money; sub-domains don't. :-) 03-24-102 13:30:56 VOICE.org means information about everything 03-24-102 13:31:50 I can get excellent deals on domain names 03-24-102 13:32:35 I think it would be easier for people looking for information to know which site to go to. And it would be easier to make a user interface for the site(s) 03-24-102 13:32:45 < $8 per year 03-24-102 13:33:02 I think we'll stick to sub-domains, as we did with forums.os2voice.org. 03-24-102 13:33:04 All the site(s) could still be hosted on the same machine/database. Each would just have a different "face" to the public 03-24-102 13:33:47 Doug: Your reason for this? 03-24-102 13:34:27 I think it is easier to understand. Easier to explain to people what the mission (and content) is/are 03-24-102 13:34:41 Easier to find stuff 03-24-102 13:35:06 Doug: Are you familiar with Netlabs? They use subdomains extensively for each project they host. 03-24-102 13:35:49 Don't they also link off to other sites. Like the installer is on another site isn't it? 03-24-102 13:36:00 WarpIn 03-24-102 13:36:10 By going to separate domains don't we lose our Warpdoctor branding? 03-24-102 13:36:28 http://warpin.netlabs.org 03-24-102 13:36:42 either way is fine with me... like I said domains can be had very cheap these days going through the right registrar 03-24-102 13:37:10 Though some information is still on Ulrich's site for Warpin. So its not a good example 03-24-102 13:37:26 Netlabs seems to be an index into the projects - to get any real information about the projects you have to go to a project "page" 03-24-102 13:38:10 and sub-domains are pretty easy to set up.. 03-24-102 13:38:20 Actually I was thinking of Ulrich's site 03-24-102 13:38:34 Mark is right. "netlabs" is one domain, using multiple subdomains. The different subdomains are simply linked or indexed to off the main page. Unless the user looks carefully, he never knows he's changed subdomains. 03-24-102 13:39:49 What does the Warpdoctor brand mean? what does it signify that is different from,say, os2ss? 03-24-102 13:40:22 In the first place, each brand implies ownership. 03-24-102 13:40:46 (please understand that I am not arguing about hosting the other stuff - just where to place it) 03-24-102 13:41:16 Second, normally a different domain is usually on a different server, although you can have "virtual" domains. 03-24-102 13:42:22 I set up the forums.os2voice.org, and it's really pretty straightforward. 03-24-102 13:43:18 www.warpdoctor.org is an example of a "virtual" domain. It's simply an alias for www.os2voice.org/warpdoctor. 03-24-102 13:43:50 To get more details, you'll really need to talk to Bill Rook. 03-24-102 13:44:21 several domains can be hosted on the same server 03-24-102 13:45:56 For example I am STRONGLY in favor of storing/achiving software/drivers that may disappear 03-24-102 13:46:13 I am as well. 03-24-102 13:46:33 I just have a hard time visualizing how that fits into the WD motif - how it matches with the doctor/sick/cure idea 03-24-102 13:47:11 maybe it would fit better hung off of VOICE.ORG, or at allTheSoftwareYouEverWanted.org 03-24-102 13:47:12 Would updating be a problem? 03-24-102 13:47:12 It could fit to a "table" like HCL. 03-24-102 13:47:35 It would be a HUGH table 03-24-102 13:47:39 problem with what? 03-24-102 13:48:25 Doug, HCL could easily contain an entry for "driver" 03-24-102 13:48:40 This is just a "for instance" 03-24-102 13:48:45 If you click on an item in the HCL expanding table it stops working well if the expanded part has hundreds of entries 03-24-102 13:49:04 If files are locally stored then when the new versions comes up they have to be replaced. 03-24-102 13:49:32 We could have an en entry for drivers. But what do you do with whole programs like Embelish, for example? 03-24-102 13:50:17 kimre, if the files aren't stored locally on the voice server.. that's not benefiting the users the way we want it to 03-24-102 13:50:40 we want to ensure continueing avaliablity 03-24-102 13:51:03 In Jeopardy, you have a game show where the host gives the contestants the answer, who have to come up with answer. 03-24-102 13:51:17 also easy accessibility 03-24-102 13:51:19 I don't see the "motif" as a serious problem. 03-24-102 13:51:55 with answer == with question 03-24-102 13:53:11 I personally think the archiving of drivers and on warpdoctor.org fits in fine.. gotta admit if you don't have drivers for your hardware your computer is pretty sick 03-24-102 13:53:12 hehe 03-24-102 13:54:10 Yeah, I've had useless computers, esp. on my LAN, that are magically "cured" when I update the driver. 03-24-102 13:54:30 Drives we could attach directly to the page(s) describing how to install them, or how to fix the problem 03-24-102 13:55:17 Not just drivers, but printers as well. 03-24-102 13:55:43 Sound cards. 03-24-102 13:56:02 Not to mention scanners 03-24-102 13:56:55 And as I mentioned, NIC's are especially sensitive to their drivers. 03-24-102 13:57:01 Ok - I give! 03-24-102 13:57:38 Th answer is "confusing idea" the question is "what did Doug bring up?" 03-24-102 13:58:22 Or, to put it another way, "You have to ask the right question". 03-24-102 14:05:32 We've got to wrap some loose threads about the mirroring issue in our next week. 03-24-102 14:05:52 Next week is Easter - are we going to meet? 03-24-102 14:06:10 Before adjourning, I would like to know if you want to skip next week. 03-24-102 14:06:29 I probably can't make the meeting 03-24-102 14:06:43 * Sector will be around 03-24-102 14:06:51 Not only is next week Easter, but both Doug and Jeremy are busy with their real lives. 03-24-102 14:07:09 I will be in West Virginia next Sunday 03-24-102 14:08:15 OK, let's make our next meeting on April 7 at 3:00 EST. 03-24-102 14:08:26 Any objections? 03-24-102 14:08:38 Real life 03-24-102 14:08:43 None here. Just send out an announcement 03-24-102 14:08:53 OK, Mark. 03-24-102 14:09:47 Anyone care to move adjournment? 03-24-102 14:09:54 * Rat-Salad moves 03-24-102 14:10:17 All in favour. 03-24-102 14:10:20 aye 03-24-102 14:10:26 aye 03-24-102 14:10:28 Aye 03-24-102 14:11:08 All opposed? 03-24-102 14:11:19 Meeting adjourned.