2-10-102 13:03:05 <Walter> This meeting of WarpDoctor is now in session. <Bang>
02-10-102 13:03:50 <Walter> Did everyone get a copy of the agenda?
02-10-102 13:03:52 <Gord> Yes
02-10-102 13:04:07 <mircomir> Walter: no, I haven't
02-10-102 13:04:31 <Walter> It's at http://www.warpdoctor.org/agendas/warpdoc_02102002.html
02-10-102 13:07:44 <Walter> I have Agenda Item 3 called "Old Business".  That's not correct. :-(
02-10-102 13:08:07 <Walter> It should problem just be "Reports".
02-10-102 13:08:32 <Walter> So: Status Reports
02-10-102 13:09:09 <Walter> We'll start with Rat-Salad, who's just chomping at the bit.
02-10-102 13:11:02 <Rat-Salad> well, I am at work improving the WarpDoctor website
02-10-102 13:11:43 <Rat-Salad> I think I gave a pretty good explaination in the e-mail I sent to the mailing list yesterday
02-10-102 13:11:56 * Sector agrees
02-10-102 13:12:07 <Walter> How about summarizing it here?
02-10-102 13:14:11 <Rat-Salad> I'm breaking up the layout into two different files
02-10-102 13:15:03 <Rat-Salad> then it will be glued together with server side includes
02-10-102 13:15:40 <Walter> Jer, for the ignorant among us (like me) could you define a server side include?
02-10-102 13:16:19 <Rat-Salad> this alows anyone that might be interested in helping with the html stuff
02-10-102 13:16:36 <mircomir> ssi is a apache modules
02-10-102 13:16:41 <Rat-Salad> make it much less confusing
02-10-102 13:16:42 <mircomir> an apache module
02-10-102 13:17:50 <Walter> How does it differ from a cgi?
02-10-102 13:17:56 <Rat-Salad> SSI allows us to use content in multiple files to be displayed on one page
02-10-102 13:18:27 <mircomir> Walter: the source pages uses a special tag like <!-- include= -->
02-10-102 13:18:42 <mircomir> that are processe prom apache 
02-10-102 13:18:50 <mircomir> during the page load
02-10-102 13:19:05 <Rat-Salad> <!--#include virtual="filename.ext" -->
02-10-102 13:19:07 <Walter> like macros ?
02-10-102 13:19:55 <mircomir> Walter: I prefer call him : directive
02-10-102 13:20:30 <Rat-Salad> directive is what I think I'd call it too
02-10-102 13:20:39 <Walter> OK, I think I get the idea.  Sorry for the interruption.
02-10-102 13:20:47 <Rat-Salad> it tells the server to also use the set file in the page too
02-10-102 13:22:54 <Rat-Salad> but this should make a template much easier to work with... at the same time making updates easier... like if we decided to totally redesign the look of the site... only time that would need to go into it would be coming up with the ideas and then figuring out how to put it together
02-10-102 13:23:58 <mircomir> Rat-Salad: for PIDO/2 I wrote some files
02-10-102 13:24:03 <mircomir> Head, tail
02-10-102 13:24:09 <mircomir> and others
02-10-102 13:24:27 <mircomir> by chancing the head I can change the look
02-10-102 13:24:37 <mircomir> by only changing
02-10-102 13:25:00 <mircomir> the head I can change the look of all site
02-10-102 13:25:21 <Rat-Salad> hmm sounds cool... 
02-10-102 13:25:24 <mircomir> my pages 
02-10-102 13:25:27 <mircomir> is like this
02-10-102 13:25:32 <mircomir> (i use php)
02-10-102 13:25:37 <Walter> Jeremy, this sounds really great--a major step forward.
02-10-102 13:25:37 <mircomir> include = head
02-10-102 13:25:43 <mircomir> include = menu
02-10-102 13:25:44 <Rat-Salad> but I think I made my point though about how the SSI can be used :)
02-10-102 13:25:50 <mircomir> include = leftnemu
02-10-102 13:26:00 <mircomir> <page code>
02-10-102 13:26:17 <mircomir> include close left menu
02-10-102 13:26:23 <mircomir> include close page
02-10-102 13:28:36 <Rat-Salad> also.. I would like to mention about the site.. 
02-10-102 13:29:05 <Rat-Salad> I have adjusted it to look better in WarpZilla and the IBM Browser
02-10-102 13:33:04 <Rat-Salad> theres still a few flaws that i haven't been able to work out.. but it still looks better in Mozilla now.. well it will once i upload my changes
02-10-102 13:36:03 <Walter> Rat-Salad, is there anything else?
02-10-102 13:36:37 <Rat-Salad> thats about it :)
02-10-102 13:36:58 <Walter> Any other discussion?
02-10-102 13:39:20 <Walter> The next item is a status report about Ceilidh.  Nothing has changed, so there's no report.
02-10-102 13:39:56 <Walter> So the next report is 3-iv: Doug re the DB2 engine.
02-10-102 13:40:08 <Walter> Doug, take it away.
02-10-102 13:40:27 <Doug> Well - I am behind schedule by about 4 days
02-10-102 13:41:00 <Doug> I ran into a brain failure that caused me to waste some time doing something I should have known better
02-10-102 13:41:16 <Doug> But other than that things are going well
02-10-102 13:42:16 <Doug> Somethings I look back and think "why did I ever think TAHT?"
02-10-102 13:43:10 <Walter> That shouldn't be a problem.  This is all volunteer work.
02-10-102 13:45:06 <Doug> Other than that things are going well .... end
02-10-102 13:48:33 <Walter> Item 4: Time of Meeting.
02-10-102 13:50:55 <Walter> As you may remember, in Dec when we switched to the new time (4:00p) we were going to do it on a temp basis for Jan. (Well, we slipped a litte) to see if the attendance improved, and then decide in February whether to make the new time permanent.  We were thinking the new time might make it easier for people in different time zones.
02-10-102 13:51:38 <Rat-Salad> I agree that attendance has improved
02-10-102 13:51:42 <Walter> So what should we do about the time.
02-10-102 13:52:30 <Walter> mircomir, what time of day is it in Italy, right now?
02-10-102 13:52:37 <mircomir> Walter: this time its ok for me
02-10-102 13:52:56 <mircomir> Walter: when I'm at home :-)
02-10-102 13:53:07 <Walter> mircomir: What about 2:00p EST?
02-10-102 13:53:23 <mircomir> its also ok
02-10-102 13:53:43 <mircomir> in winter 2est is 8PM hare
02-10-102 13:53:49 <mircomir> here
02-10-102 13:53:52 <Walter> mircomir: thanks.
02-10-102 13:54:30 <Walter> 4:00p.m fits in better to my afternoon.  2:00pm is really tight.
02-10-102 13:55:18 <Walter> Anyone else who's gone missing since our time change?
02-10-102 13:55:24 <Rat-Salad> like I've said before.. I can be here any time within reason
02-10-102 13:56:20 <Walter> Why don't we table the matter until next week when we'll know about lalcan's situation, and maybe have more people here as well?
02-10-102 13:56:21 <Gord> Either time is fine with me.
02-10-102 13:56:31 <Walter> Thanks, Gord.
02-10-102 13:57:06 <mircomir> ok
02-10-102 13:57:20 <Walter> kimre, do you have a strong preference as to time?
02-10-102 13:58:00 <kimre> 2-3-4 is OK with me
02-10-102 13:59:07 <Walter> Agenda Item 5: New Business
02-10-102 13:59:44 <Walter> XRange do you have a strong preference as to whether we meet at 2p or 4 p on Sundays?
02-10-102 14:00:15 <XRange> no it makes no diference time wise
02-10-102 14:00:19 <mircomir> 5. apache....
02-10-102 14:00:47 <Walter> Item 5a. Apache Donation
02-10-102 14:02:22 <Walter> You've probably all heard that Vaughn Bender, who has a subscription to Software Choice, has donated his copy of the IBM Apache for OS/2 to VOICE.
02-10-102 14:02:53 <Rat-Salad> I'm kinda concerned about this
02-10-102 14:03:11 <Walter> This version of Apache is considerably superior to free one currently running on Server1 because
02-10-102 14:03:47 <Walter> it is a native, compiled version specifically for OS/2,
02-10-102 14:04:11 <mircomir> Walter: can you use the emx apache modules?
02-10-102 14:04:17 <mircomir> Walter: like php
02-10-102 14:04:41 <Walter> and because it doesn't depend upon the EMX, which contains a major bug.
02-10-102 14:05:18 <Rat-Salad> I don't know if you can really call IBM's Apache superior.. but not requiring EMX is a advantage... 
02-10-102 14:05:38 <Walter> I have written a personal email thanking Vaughn, but I think it would be appropriate to send an official statement
02-10-102 14:05:40 <mircomir> Rat-Salad: is based on apache 1.3.20 code
02-10-102 14:05:53 <Walter> of some kind from WarpDoctor.
02-10-102 14:05:55 <WarpedOS2> IBM Apache has an application that allows you to Generate your SSL key
02-10-102 14:06:02 <mircomir> Rat-Salad: apache is stable... I think the ibm web server too
02-10-102 14:06:48 <Rat-Salad> I'm not speaking against Apache...
02-10-102 14:07:11 <WarpedOS2> IBM Apache has reasonable docs with it to help aid configuring...so you don't have to go searching the net...for it...
02-10-102 14:07:13 <Walter> Could we hold this "discussion" for a moment, please?
02-10-102 14:07:32 <Rat-Salad> I think Apache is a standard to stick with... reguardless of the version we use
02-10-102 14:07:34 <Walter> We'll get to it, when we deal with the next item in the agenda.
02-10-102 14:08:07 <Rat-Salad> both Abel and I are familar with the Apache configuration files
02-10-102 14:08:54 <Walter> I move that the WarpDoctor hereby resolve to thank Vaughn Bender for his generous contribution to the WarpDoctor project.
02-10-102 14:09:14 <Doug> I second the motion
02-10-102 14:09:39 <Walter> All in favour, signify with some form of Aye.
02-10-102 14:09:45 <Doug> Aye
02-10-102 14:09:51 <kimre> aye
02-10-102 14:09:55 <Gord> aye
02-10-102 14:09:58 <Rat-Salad> aye
02-10-102 14:10:00 <XRange> Aye
02-10-102 14:10:21 <Walter> All opposed.
02-10-102 14:10:35 <Walter> Carried.
02-10-102 14:10:44 <Rat-Salad> I hate to open my mouth.. but not knowing the legal details is bothering me
02-10-102 14:11:23 <Walter> BTW, this resolution doesn't commit us to USING this version of Apache.
02-10-102 14:11:53 <Rat-Salad> I mean maybe you all know... but someone re-ensure me that it is legal for Vaughn to donate the Apache
02-10-102 14:12:27 <pilot> The lawyer just arrived to answer that question.
02-10-102 14:12:55 <Walter> Well, Vaughn is a member of Warpdoctor, so he is really doing the same thing that Charles did with DB2, is he not?
02-10-102 14:13:07 <pilot> He purchased it, He owns it. As long as it is not reproduced, he can give it away.
02-10-102 14:13:33 <Sector> Not exactly the same thing, it's part of SWC...
02-10-102 14:14:18 <mircomir> He purchased a SW access
02-10-102 14:14:24 <WarpedOS2> I have SWC and Developer subscription so I really have two licenses
02-10-102 14:14:27 <pilot> As long as he neither reproduces it or uses it hemself after giving it away, I fail to see a violation
02-10-102 14:14:27 <mircomir> I don't know if is separable
02-10-102 14:15:17 <Walter> mircomir, pilot is actually a lawyer. :-)
02-10-102 14:15:38 <Walter> I think it is save to take his word.
02-10-102 14:15:42 <Walter> safe
02-10-102 14:16:40 <pilot> You can distinguish between software and a license, and I supose I would actually have to review the license. But generally the law is that whichever one he has it's his to give away.
02-10-102 14:20:29 <Walter> Agenda Item 5b:
02-10-102 14:21:02 <Walter> i.Hi all,
02-10-102 14:21:03 <Walter>              I have finally been able to sit down and view a few of my 600+ messages since my
02-10-102 14:21:03 <Walter>              return from my Texas trip. Yes I had a WUNNERFUL time. I think That's where I'll move
02-10-102 14:21:03 <Walter>              when I retire.
02-10-102 14:21:03 <Walter>              1. The current level of apache we have works fine for VOICE1.
02-10-102 14:21:03 <Walter>              2. It is widely known that under heavy traffic the EMX version of apache fails.
02-10-102 14:21:05 <Walter>              3. We run the EMX version.
02-10-102 14:21:07 <Walter>              4. The 'TotalLoad' on VOICE1 is actually LARGE..
02-10-102 14:21:09 <Walter>      add to the existing load DB2 ( which I presume to be several instances once WD and
02-10-102 14:21:12 <Walter>              VOICE have concurrent processes....)
02-10-102 14:21:13 <Walter>              5. VOICE1 should run as much 'native' SW as possible. EMX is not 'native'.
02-10-102 14:21:15 <Walter>              6. I need to devote some time to this changeover. Currently I am unable to do
02-10-102 14:21:17 <Walter>              it.
02-10-102 14:21:19 <Walter>              I say go ahead and let's migrate with _Proper_Prior_PLANNING.
02-10-102 14:21:21 <Walter>              I will attack this situation in the next 2 weeks if at all possible(see #6 above)
02-10-102 14:21:23 <Walter>         Thanks to all of you for your patience and time.
02-10-102 14:21:44 <Walter> The above was taken from an email to the WD group.  You should all have seen and read it by now. :-)
02-10-102 14:22:05 <Walter> It was sent by Abel. :-)
02-10-102 14:22:33 <Walter> We don't have to go along with Abel's advice, but....
02-10-102 14:23:11 <Walter> Now, we can discuss the merits of the various Apache's.
02-10-102 14:23:36 <Rat-Salad> well, personally.. I trust Abel's judgement
02-10-102 14:24:10 <WarpedOS2> I have been using Apache 2.0.25 and it has not crashed once yet and been running for about 110 days without a hitch...I don't use SSL though
02-10-102 14:24:11 <Walter> Yes, I do as well.
02-10-102 14:24:26 <mircomir> Walter: with heavy load?
02-10-102 14:24:31 <Sector> Abel originally ran into some EMX related problems with the current Apache
02-10-102 14:24:39 <mircomir> WarpedOS2:  with heavy load?
02-10-102 14:24:48 <WarpedOS2> Our school division uses it and it get about 1600 hits a day...
02-10-102 14:24:53 <Rat-Salad> yeah... the problem was a socket limitation
02-10-102 14:25:13 <WarpedOS2> plus it is used for getting web mail with  Webmail/2
02-10-102 14:25:28 <WarpedOS2> and the cgi script in webmail works Great!
02-10-102 14:25:30 <Rat-Salad> the problem os2.org recently experienced was related to the PHP module not releasing memory I believe
02-10-102 14:25:45 <WarpedOS2> I can not comment on the PHP module..
02-10-102 14:26:21 <Walter> Anyone know how many hits/day Server1 is getting now?
02-10-102 14:26:22 <WarpedOS2> 2.0.25 claims some of the  IO has become native and not emx
02-10-102 14:26:41 <WarpedOS2> which has improved performance and stability
02-10-102 14:27:24 <WarpedOS2> If you want I believe I have the copy of it kicking around here somewhere...
02-10-102 14:27:47 <mircomir> Rat-Salad: probabily is an apache problem, because the apache module doesen't release the memory...
02-10-102 14:28:00 <mircomir> Rat-Salad: is apache that release memory allocated in the pool strucures
02-10-102 14:28:13 <Walter> WarpedOS2: copy of what kicking around?
02-10-102 14:28:41 <Rat-Salad> actually.. I quoted Abel on the problem os2.org had
02-10-102 14:28:51 <mircomir> Rat-Salad: in apache API there is an ap_palloc but there isn't and ap_free :-)
02-10-102 14:28:54 <WarpedOS2> copy of apache 2.0.25
02-10-102 14:29:19 <Walter> Is Apache 2.0.25 the IBM version?
02-10-102 14:29:33 <mircomir> Walter: no is a beta version
02-10-102 14:29:52 <Walter> OK, because the IBM is already on Server1
02-10-102 14:30:01 <Walter> IBM one
02-10-102 14:49:10 <mircomir> Walter: do you have a Warpdoctor banner?
02-10-102 14:49:23 <mircomir> Walter: I want put it on my site
02-10-102 14:49:30 <mircomir> Walter: http://www.quasarbbs.net/pido2/os2bann.php
02-10-102 14:49:43 <Rat-Salad> I was thinking about creating some WarpDoctor banners
02-10-102 14:49:50 <mircomir> Rat-Salad: good
02-10-102 14:49:58 <mircomir> I put it in my banner ring
02-10-102 14:52:44 <Rat-Salad> mircomir: what size banner would you require?
02-10-102 14:53:00 <mircomir> Rat-Salad: I use a non-standard 300x46
02-10-102 14:53:21 <mircomir> Rat-Salad: (and you can include it on all pages with my javascript)
02-10-102 14:54:05 <Walter> First, is everyone in favour of switching to the IBM Apache?
02-10-102 14:54:20 <mircomir> Walter: if it works...
02-10-102 14:54:36 <Walter> Maybe I should ask if there are any objections?
02-10-102 14:55:12 <Walter> Naturally, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.  This is where we have to trust Abel, I guess.
02-10-102 14:55:16 <Doug> Isn't this something that RS and Abel should decide?
02-10-102 14:55:44 <Walter> RS has already says he trusted Abel.
02-10-102 14:56:03 <Doug> From what I read Abel said to do it
02-10-102 14:56:12 <Rat-Salad> yes.. I trust Abel to make the desisions about the server
02-10-102 14:56:25 <Walter> I just want to make sure anyone with strong objections has an chance to express them. :-)
02-10-102 14:57:04 <Doug> I don't have any objections
02-10-102 14:57:05 <Walter> OK, then we switch, according to Abel and Doug's timetable.
02-10-102 14:57:34 <Walter> Doug this will impact on your schedule,  won't it?
02-10-102 14:57:56 <Doug> No, it shouldn't - I expect IBM to work the same as Apache
02-10-102 14:59:13 <Rat-Salad> I'd think it would just be a matter of replacing the old apache... the configs should still work
02-10-102 14:59:35 <Doug> Mircomir - I didn't understand the question?
02-10-102 15:00:10 <mircomir> Doug: IBM web browser have a php module?
02-10-102 15:00:32 <mircomir> or I can use a php module designed for apache?
02-10-102 15:00:55 <Doug> I think someone said that a php module has made for IBMweb
02-10-102 15:01:40 <Walter> mircomir, as I understand it, the two Apache's should be virtual clones.  The differences are at the coding level, not at the functional level.
02-10-102 15:01:57 <Rat-Salad> you mean in order for it to work properly I have to set up full XFree86?
02-10-102 15:02:34 <Doug> Walter - I think there are some differences with PHP, and SSL and java applets
02-10-102 15:05:50 <Walter> Well, it's past time for adjournment.
02-10-102 15:06:09 <Walter> Our next meeting will be Sunday at 4:00p
02-10-102 15:06:28 <Gord> Motion to adjurn.
02-10-102 15:06:38 <Walter> All in favour?
02-10-102 15:06:41 <Doug> aye
02-10-102 15:06:45 <Gord> aye
02-10-102 15:07:00 <Rat-Salad> aye
02-10-102 15:07:31 <Walter> All opposed?
02-10-102 15:07:46 <Walter> Carried.