01-27-102 16:19:44 I'm sending announcements out on the OS/2 NEWS ML in the hopes of gaining some new people. 01-27-102 16:20:06 Everyone read the agenda? 01-27-102 16:20:11 Yes 01-27-102 16:20:12 seen one lastnight on the VOICE News list 01-27-102 16:21:04 Well, Gord read it. :-) 01-27-102 16:21:13 * Sector read it 01-27-102 16:21:44 OK, let's begin. 01-27-102 16:22:04 This WarpDoctor meeting is now called to Order. 01-27-102 16:22:27 Hi Kimre. 01-27-102 16:22:39 hi everyone 01-27-102 16:22:55 I see lalcan isn't going to make it again 01-27-102 16:23:03 Agenda Item 3: Status Reports. 01-27-102 16:23:15 I guess I'll write him later and see whats up 01-27-102 16:23:29 So it would seem. It would be a shame if his page never made it to GA. 01-27-102 16:23:38 I actually have something to report this week 01-27-102 16:23:54 Go ahead. 01-27-102 16:24:18 I finished the recovery from last weeks accident 01-27-102 16:24:29 Good stuff. 01-27-102 16:24:45 I added the WalkAbout button that Wilson sent me 01-27-102 16:25:25 and changed the meeting time on the page 01-27-102 16:25:45 and umm updated the team page 01-27-102 16:25:54 Glad of that. 01-27-102 16:26:28 take a minute to look over team.html... and tell me if I'm forgetting anyone who deserves credit 01-27-102 16:28:45 I know I need to change the e-mail address for Walter and Charles, I forgot at the time.. I'll get that fixed 01-27-102 16:31:28 I'd also like to go over a layout idea I mentioned before but never really explained 01-27-102 16:31:29 Not that I can think of. 01-27-102 16:32:04 The floor is still yours. 01-27-102 16:33:14 this will do away with the template... will make it much much easier for anyone who may decide to help 01-27-102 16:34:27 have the top part of the layout in a file called layout-a.html, and the bottom would be in a file called layout-b.html 01-27-102 16:35:42 to put it together... insert something like this just after the tag.. 01-27-102 16:36:26 then when the content is in.. just before insert 01-27-102 16:37:14 thats all the volunteer would really have to know to do.. the rest of their work would be very basic 01-27-102 16:37:28 Jer, if I may ask a question? 01-27-102 16:37:50 of course 01-27-102 16:38:42 I take it that "virtual" has a special meaning. If so, what does it mean, and to what software program? 01-27-102 16:39:21 basically... what that does is tells it to put the contents of the file there 01-27-102 16:40:15 What program/editor/compiler do you use to do this? 01-27-102 16:40:49 it's a feature of the web server 01-27-102 16:41:01 OK, thanks. 01-27-102 16:41:05 called a ServerSide Include 01-27-102 16:41:18 It'll be auto included, without the one making the pages up needing to put all the stuff in 01-27-102 16:41:34 Know what they are, but never had the opportunity to work with them. :-( 01-27-102 16:41:38 right 01-27-102 16:42:53 this will be less confusing for anyone who may decide to help with the HTML 01-27-102 16:43:10 pretty easy.. 01-27-102 16:43:15 It certainly looks like it. :-) 01-27-102 16:43:38 btw.. Wilson deserves the credit for thinking of this 01-27-102 16:43:49 Hmmm. 01-27-102 16:44:17 him and I talked about it some time ago 01-27-102 16:45:28 Anything else? 01-27-102 16:45:32 ok... that is all :) 01-27-102 16:46:17 I didn't put myself on the agenda, but I'm going add myself here under Ceilidh. 01-27-102 16:47:42 As of last week, Ceilidh had two minor problems: 01-27-102 16:50:28 1. The two WarpDoctor forums share the same registration pool. In other words, if you have access rights to the DB2 forum, you automatically have access to the Publication forum. That's not what I wanted, and I'm working with Bill to correct the problem. Part of the problem is that I don't understand Apache all that well. I'll also get help from Lilkoi if I need to. 01-27-102 16:50:30 01-27-102 16:53:40 2. Last week, Jerryo said that anyone could read our messages. If you were here, you'll know that I didn't agree with his statement. Since then I've been able to reproduce the problem. Consequently I've changed registration options so that entering your username and password is required to access Ceilidh messages for any reason and at any time. In addition all the messages will now be encrypted. Please see one of the WarpDoctor forums for more details. 01-27-102 16:55:13 As far as know that should fix problem number #2. As always, if you have questions or problems just post them on the forum, or if you have to, email me at walter.os2@rogers.com with the word "forum" in the subject line. 01-27-102 16:55:25 Are there any questions? 01-27-102 16:56:38 actually me and Abel found that problem the other day.. but I didn't have time to mention it last week 01-27-102 16:57:16 It's taken me awhile to figure out exactly what each of the registration options actually means. 01-27-102 16:57:17 if its the same 01-27-102 16:58:02 RS, exactly what was the problem you and Abel ran into? 01-27-102 16:58:52 three failed login attemps sent you on through if I remember right 01-27-102 16:59:14 See if that happens now. 01-27-102 17:00:20 While RS is trying to hack the system, I'd like to take a quickie poll. 01-27-102 17:00:44 How many of you object to having a temporary cookie placed on your system? 01-27-102 17:01:06 Not me 01-27-102 17:01:11 ok.. it's working correctly 01-27-102 17:01:18 temporary=cookie disappears when browser is closed 01-27-102 17:01:26 rs: good 01-27-102 17:01:53 Doug: I don't either. 01-27-102 17:02:10 No objection 01-27-102 17:02:18 Anyone who does object to temporary cookies? 01-27-102 17:02:26 You know cookies cannot be read by web sites other than the one that created the cookie 01-27-102 17:02:49 If set that way 01-27-102 17:03:02 I know that's the theory. 01-27-102 17:03:20 All cookies are maintained in a file created by the browser 01-27-102 17:07:59 With this registration setup, you are given the ability to choose to have the computer REMEMBER your username and password for the present session. 01-27-102 17:08:29 It does this by writing a temporary cookie to your system. 01-27-102 17:09:11 So if you don't mind temporary cookies, you can save yourself a lot of typing (and mistakes). 01-27-102 17:10:00 You can go from thread to thread and forum to forum without having to reenter your password and userid info. 01-27-102 17:10:18 Sounds good 01-27-102 17:10:37 Any other comments/questions on Ceilidh? 01-27-102 17:11:39 Not right now 01-27-102 17:12:11 OK, let's move on Item 4: New Business: 01-27-102 17:12:27 a. Review of Doug's Schedules 01-27-102 17:12:45 Doug, you now have the cyber-floor. :-) 01-27-102 17:13:02 well....... any questions? 01-27-102 17:17:47 Let me sum the schedule - 01-27-102 17:18:11 I think that we can have a running site in about a month 01-27-102 17:18:25 That would be wonderful. 01-27-102 17:18:33 This includes user input of new items, user change of existing items, nav and search functions 01-27-102 17:18:44 This I call phase 1 01-27-102 17:19:15 What is missing is 1) email validation of user IDs, compatibility with Nav v 6, postscript/PDF and INF output 01-27-102 17:19:30 Sorry - that was three items 01-27-102 17:19:39 Doug: what is Nav V6? 01-27-102 17:19:58 The new version that is on SWC 01-27-102 17:20:10 Doug: ok, I will see 01-27-102 17:20:28 I forget the name of the project - Godzilla? 01-27-102 17:20:45 Doug, what do you mean by it won't have compatibility with NS 6? 01-27-102 17:20:47 Warpzilla 01-27-102 17:21:06 NS will still be able to read it, won't it? 01-27-102 17:21:23 NS 6, I mean. 01-27-102 17:21:45 Warpzilla - thanks. Netscape v 4.4-4.61 will work fine. NS v 6 will have problems with the notebook controls and possibly the nav lists 01-27-102 17:22:18 This is because NS6 is VERY NOT backwards compatible with any previous verion of any vendor's browser. 01-27-102 17:22:49 Since I have both on my system (and on WC) I'll be fine, then. 01-27-102 17:23:21 My feeling (my hope) is that most people will still be using v 4.61 01-27-102 17:23:32 ok, warpzilla... I think it works very well, I use only it... but V0.9.7 have some problems with forms (I must modified all form on PIDO/2) 01-27-102 17:23:43 What does NS6 do that NS4,6,1 can;t? 01-27-102 17:24:03 K_Imre: all :-) 01-27-102 17:24:15 If you are doing plain old HTML everything is fine. If you use Javascript with the old DHTML then everything is screwed 01-27-102 17:24:53 NS6 complies with "official" document structuring conventions and javascript standardization 01-27-102 17:24:54 K_Imre: and warpzilla is very stable... more stable than NS4.61 01-27-102 17:25:18 Unfortunately those standards are very different from what browsers (both Netscape and IE) were using before 01-27-102 17:25:23 mozilla is also faster in the HTML rendering 01-27-102 17:25:49 K_Imre: How about WYSIWYG HTML? 01-27-102 17:26:08 The Warpzilla team ( this is not just limited to just the OS/2 port) did not build in the old stuff 01-27-102 17:26:42 Basically if you are talking style sheets you may or may not work. The event and document layout is very different 01-27-102 17:26:44 Thanks all. I guess I should install my last version soon. 01-27-102 17:27:12 If is EXTREEMLY difficult to build a decent web application that runs on multiple browsers - very few sites even try 01-27-102 17:27:45 Doug: I know... 01-27-102 17:27:52 That's what I use NS 6 for mostly. My OCR program outputs documents in a complex HTML that they call K_Imre that allows them to handle tables, tabs, indents, etc. Unfortunately NS 4.x can't make anything of it, but NS 6 (or WZ 0.9.5) reads it just fine. 01-27-102 17:28:42 Walter: NS6 = Moz 0.9.4.1 01-27-102 17:29:40 So - it seemed best to start with netscape and IE compatibility and then add Warpzilla later 01-27-102 17:30:02 Fine with me. 01-27-102 17:30:07 Doug: ok 01-27-102 17:30:21 Doug: but, what problem dio you have now? 01-27-102 17:30:25 dio - do 01-27-102 17:30:29 dio = do 01-27-102 17:31:19 Specifically the notebook control will not work with NS6 - it using a version of DHTML that works with IE and NS 4.6 etc. 01-27-102 17:31:53 The Nav thingy - the collapsing/expanding list will also use that kind of DHTML 01-27-102 17:32:04 Doug: yes... I see nwow in the HCL 01-27-102 17:32:10 nwow = now 01-27-102 17:32:16 We will have to ascertain the type of browser and switch to different code 01-27-102 17:32:41 *mircomir* No: NS6. I'm _forced_ to use Windows 98 sometimes, and then I use Windows NS6; when running OS/2, I run Mozilla 0.9.5 . 01-27-102 17:32:41 *mircomir* is Away auto away after idling [15 min] [Log:ON] .gz. 01-27-102 17:32:41 =mircomir= I am away. Message logging is ON. 01-27-102 17:32:54 The current HCL list might work - but I was going to try and mod that to one that didn't cause the screen to repaint each time you clicked on a folder 01-27-102 17:33:34 The other sticky points: 01-27-102 17:33:37 *mircomir* ah, ok! On w2k my brother uses Moz0.9.6... I prefer it over NS6 01-27-102 17:33:49 1) I was planning on using a temp cookie for user ID and login stuff 01-27-102 17:33:51 I have some background in PostScript language. If it is needed I might be able to help. 01-27-102 17:34:00 Thanks K_Imre 01-27-102 17:34:26 2) I am planning on building a connection manager in the next week to speed up the HTML-database connect process 01-27-102 17:34:35 Hopefully that will go ok 01-27-102 17:34:47 What's a connect manager? 01-27-102 17:34:51 3) end---- 01-27-102 17:34:55 er..connection 01-27-102 17:35:20 An alternative we could do is: make the initial release work on everything and add the pretty stuff later 01-27-102 17:35:33 Meaning we could ditch the notebook control and use simpler nav lists 01-27-102 17:35:45 Detect the browser version and load the correct page automatically¨ 01-27-102 17:36:13 We can do that, I just won't have time to build the correct page(s) for NS6 in a month 01-27-102 17:36:28 Future use 01-27-102 17:36:36 Doug: I like that alternative. 01-27-102 17:36:42 A connection manager is a thingy that opens multiple connections to the database and passes those out to CGI programs as needed 01-27-102 17:36:53 Doug: I think that is not a problem... all OS/2 guys have NS4.61 01-27-102 17:37:41 Otherwise each CGI program (meaning each item that is displayed) has to make its own connection - and the connection will take long than running the program 01-27-102 17:38:01 Doug, I thing mircomir is right. Most OS/2 people aren't going to take NS4.61 off their systems for a long time. 01-27-102 17:38:02 long=longer 01-27-102 17:38:58 Doug, we don't need the CM the first month, do we? 01-27-102 17:39:46 Maybe not - but I am afraid that performance will be disappointing since we are storing so much in the database 01-27-102 17:40:07 I orignially was planning on doing that later - but now I hope to get that done first. 01-27-102 17:40:27 is the database on a separate physical machine from the net interface? 01-27-102 17:40:40 Not currently 01-27-102 17:40:57 I'll leave it up to you. However, just a thought. What per cent of our data will get stored during the first month? 01-27-102 17:41:19 I also have an ulteriour motive - I plan on using much of the same code for the connection manager on some ODBC C++ classes I need to get done for OS2eZine article by the 6th 01-27-102 17:41:34 percent data - hopefull all 01-27-102 17:41:45 Then go for it. 01-27-102 17:41:54 That's ok, better to do the same amount of work for twice the gain 01-27-102 17:42:18 oooooo - db2 on the same system as the web interface.......work with me on this - that would make the system bus the slowest link in the connection, right? 01-27-102 17:42:22 If you will notice I cleverly assigned the converting of existing data to Gord 01-27-102 17:42:51 Yeah - DB2 ought to be moved to another machine - but that is a future thing 01-27-102 17:43:43 from the viewpoint of performance, having it on the single server is actually helpful, i would comment 01-27-102 17:44:48 * Longstaff comments that for a user on a 56k dialup, the major performance lag is the wait for the page to refresh 01-27-102 17:44:52 I did some informal, unscientific tests that showed DB2 on different machine from web server was actually faster. Which is not necessarly what one would normally think 01-27-102 17:45:11 Longstaff: you are right 01-27-102 17:45:13 Longstaff: we've already discussed the acquiring a second machine for WarpDoctor at some point in the future. 01-27-102 17:45:23 Longstaff: I'm using a 56K dialup 01-27-102 17:45:24 Doug: quite right.......that's kinda amazing, in fact 01-27-102 17:46:09 I am on a dialup - that is the only access I can get to the great internet. I hope to do as much stuff on the client as possible to prevent having to access the server any more than necessary 01-27-102 17:46:21 hence all the javascript stuff 01-27-102 17:46:43 Doug: I use a local proxy :-) 01-27-102 17:47:51 I also assigned (without asking him) Bill Rook the job of writing a small procedure to backup the database nightly. 01-27-102 17:48:16 Doug: have you even told him? :-) 01-27-102 17:48:22 If the backup file is not compressed this can be done from the DB2 GUI screens. If the database backup file is to be compressed 01-27-102 17:48:33 he will have to write a little Rexx program 01-27-102 17:48:53 Walter - not yet - he has been gone (suprise!) 01-27-102 17:49:09 Suprise for him when he gets back. 01-27-102 17:49:25 Hope he likes surprises! 01-27-102 17:49:59 He wanted to get involved with DB2 so I don't think he will have a problem. 01-27-102 17:50:27 If anyone else wants to jump in they are more than welcome to get some tasks 01-27-102 17:51:14 I think Gord also wanted to get into some programming so I hope to farm some stuff off to him in the future 01-27-102 17:57:36 Doug: It will subcribe the WD Mailing list 01-27-102 17:58:25 Thanks mircomir - maybe it will work out later 01-27-102 17:59:00 mircomir: be sure to visit the forums regularly too. (forums.os2voice.org) 01-27-102 17:59:46 Walter: ok! 01-27-102 18:00:32 Walter: do we need a Passwd to write a post on forums.os2voice.org? 01-27-102 18:01:03 Checking... 01-27-102 18:07:26 Thats all I have for schedule 01-27-102 18:09:22 Doug, if that's all you have, then I guess we've covered everything. 01-27-102 18:09:35 Is there a motion for adjournment? 01-27-102 18:09:39 That's all I have 01-27-102 18:09:49 Motion 01-27-102 18:09:58 All in favour? 01-27-102 18:10:01 aye 01-27-102 18:10:05 aye 01-27-102 18:10:30 Carried. 01-27-102 18:10:41 bye all 01-27-102 18:10:50 We'll meet next week at the same time.