01-13-102 13:03:08 I'm sorry to be a little late. I was re-doing the forums, and I was inputting the information for the DB2 discussion board when Netscape quit on me. :-( 01-13-102 13:03:30 I'm finding these meetings interesting. This whole IRC concept is new to me. 01-13-102 13:03:37 So I had to restart entering your email addresses, etc. all over again. 01-13-102 13:05:06 Walter: Is it possible for someone to help you with things like inputting? 01-13-102 13:06:01 The members of the DB2 discussion group should now be able to access the first forum. Your user name is the Ident you use here, and your password is "password". So during your first session you should change your password to something else. 01-13-102 13:07:09 How do we get their 01-13-102 13:11:05 When using the DB2 forum, be very careful about typing in your username and password. The are lower case and case-sensitive. 01-13-102 13:11:46 Gord - I sent the compiler on Friday. The post office said it would take 7-10 days. I am updating the design doc and will send it when I am done, maybe Mon or Tues 01-13-102 13:12:05 Doug: Thank you! 01-13-102 13:12:18 The only exception is the Username where I tried to reproduce the way you use your handles in the chatrooms. 01-13-102 13:14:05 Walter: how do we get to the discussion forum? 01-13-102 13:14:59 You can either go to www.warpdoctor.org/Ceilidh/ or to http://forums.os2voice.org/ 01-13-102 13:15:09 Thanks 01-13-102 13:16:44 I've decided to phase out the forum on the Warpdoctor site, because it's confusing and awkward to maintain. However you can still use the warpdoctor URL to go the Warpdoctor forums--however they will be on the VOICE site. 01-13-102 13:16:58 HTML magic. :-) 01-13-102 13:21:48 OK, one final note about the forms and then we'll start the meeting. 01-13-102 13:23:07 Because of the re-organization of forums, all of the other forums have deleted! I'll try to build the discussion forum asap. 01-13-102 13:23:25 OK, let's get started with the meeting. 01-13-102 13:25:05 Sector and I are taking the long as usual. BTW, sector--thanks for handling the Speakup yesterday. 01-13-102 13:25:50 The next item are Status Reports. 01-13-102 13:26:50 I emailed a status report right before the meeting started to keep from typing it all in this tiny little box 01-13-102 13:26:58 a. Doug emailed a fairly big substantial one around 3:45p ET. 01-13-102 13:27:34 OK, Doug, how would you like to summarize it for us? 01-13-102 13:28:03 1) Waiting on Bill (Wilson Rook) te get back for DB2,Telnet, FTP issues 01-13-102 13:28:16 2) I have Apache up and running on my server for testing 01-13-102 13:28:39 3) update to design doc and first draft of schedule to be put out this coming week 01-13-102 13:28:47 4) end 01-13-102 13:28:47 May I do a suggestion ? 01-13-102 13:29:08 Go ahead. 01-13-102 13:29:15 Dump Apache!!! 01-13-102 13:30:00 Why and replace it with what? 01-13-102 13:30:22 My experience is that Lotus Domino Webserver (version 4.6.2.8) is many many more times stable then Apache... 01-13-102 13:30:47 Apache to my best knowlegde is not multithreaded..... 01-13-102 13:30:59 Lotus Domino webserver is... 01-13-102 13:31:11 I'm looking at a server that has been running for lets see 01-13-102 13:31:17 eCSNL: Apache is what the VOICE1 server runs on, and therefore what WarpDoctor will run, so dumping it isn't really an option in the near future, anyway. 01-13-102 13:31:27 Oke... 01-13-102 13:31:32 I can't tell which 01-13-102 13:31:38 But I have access to two servers 01-13-102 13:31:45 that's up to Abel 01-13-102 13:31:58 And both ran/run Apache and Apache is a headache, but again experience are different!!! 01-13-102 13:32:28 Apache is still being developed. LGDW is dead. There just isn't much choice in the issue anymore. 01-13-102 13:33:14 the limitations of Apache under OS/2 are EMX limitation from what I've been told 01-13-102 13:33:40 Is EMX still being developed? 01-13-102 13:33:50 I don't think that Apache will be the bottle-neck on WD. It will be other things, like database access and the external processes needed to achieve that 01-13-102 13:33:54 There hasn't been a new release of EMX in a long time 01-13-102 13:34:02 Mark, Jeremy--do you know why Apache was chosen over one of the IBM servers such as OS2WSeb. 01-13-102 13:34:31 WSeB is not a web server 01-13-102 13:34:38 for VOICE1, I mean? 01-13-102 13:34:53 Ah! 01-13-102 13:34:53 It comes with Lotus Go Web server which IBM has abandoned 01-13-102 13:35:49 Anyway we should get back on topic. 01-13-102 13:36:38 Doug--what server do you have Apache running on? 01-13-102 13:36:58 WSeB that is my web, network and database server 01-13-102 13:37:35 web server using Apache? 01-13-102 13:37:56 or Lotus? 01-13-102 13:38:13 Yeah - I actually have both Lotus and Apache installed. I installed Apache in order to mimic WD 01-13-102 13:38:58 Did you have anything else you wanted to add to your summary? 01-13-102 13:39:05 My suggestion is: since we arleady have Apache up and running, to leave it that way unless and until there is a compelling reason to change 01-13-102 13:39:12 No - done with summary 01-13-102 13:39:35 Agreed! 01-13-102 13:40:43 I will go ahead and try some stuff with both, just to see if I can tell a difference (for kicks) 01-13-102 13:41:28 Yeah, it'd good if you could somehow load them both and see how each ran. 01-13-102 13:41:59 It would not be a big deal to point both at the same HTML/CGI directories and run a test web site against both 01-13-102 13:42:47 OK, go ahead and do it. 01-13-102 13:42:54 Will do 01-13-102 13:43:31 Walter: you may specify a different port 01-13-102 13:43:32 Jeremy--do you have anything to report about the Web-Site? 01-13-102 13:44:03 Walter: and call the pages with :port 01-13-102 13:45:01 no.. nothing this week.. I've been busy with my systems the past few days 01-13-102 13:47:35 though... I did recieve a e-mail with a offering of help 01-13-102 13:48:10 this could be a good thing 01-13-102 13:48:32 How do you think you might be able to use him? 01-13-102 13:48:44 thank Walter for "recruiting" him 01-13-102 13:49:28 mostly basic updates, and content input 01-13-102 13:51:16 Let's move on in the agenda. 01-13-102 13:52:18 There are one or two points under "Old Business" I'd like to clear up. 01-13-102 13:54:02 Doug, I put an entry about Database or HTML. Did we clear that up? 01-13-102 13:54:19 have an entry 01-13-102 13:54:39 Yeah, I think. I am going forward with everything is in the database 01-13-102 13:55:07 OK, I just crossed out HTML. 01-13-102 13:56:05 I have another entry about "Drilling down or searching" That was a comment raised by someone else. First--what the heck does drilling down mean? 01-13-102 13:56:41 Or maybe I should say--how does it apply here? 01-13-102 13:57:11 On the Hardware Compatibility List (www.warpdoctor.org/HCL) the left side is an expanding list that allows you to "drill down" through the list until you find the hardware you are looking for 01-13-102 13:57:29 as opposed to just entering the desired hardware in a search screen 01-13-102 13:57:32 Have you been to IBM's DDPak since they changed to Domino Notes databse? you have to keep selecting subcategories to get to anything. 01-13-102 13:57:42 As I understand it Its a process of finding your specific data by starting with more general data, similar to an INF file with links. 01-13-102 13:57:49 Sorta like window shopping 01-13-102 13:57:53 Yes--and I hate it! 01-13-102 13:58:07 Or at least the way they implemented it. 01-13-102 13:58:46 MY opinion is that WD probably should have both 01-13-102 13:58:59 Mark, I think the main problem with DDPak is that it is not well-organized. 01-13-102 13:59:58 Walter: That, and when you finally get to the end it tells you to see the vendors site which has no mention of OS/2 or takes you to SWC 01-13-102 14:00:01 I tend to agree--searching can be very efficient. Then if it doesn't work, you can drill-down. Or vice-versa. 01-13-102 14:01:40 How difficult is it to implement both systems (drill-down and searching) on WD? 01-13-102 14:02:01 They are two very different problems database wise and CGI/HTML/Javascript wise 01-13-102 14:02:14 But I think we just have to bit the bullet and do both 01-13-102 14:02:32 Doug: do you considered a PHP / DB solution? 01-13-102 14:02:52 OK, someone translate for me! 01-13-102 14:03:01 PHP and DB 01-13-102 14:03:15 No I haven't - mainly becuase I haven't programmed in PHP and I have alot of stuff already created in C++ 01-13-102 14:03:28 use a PHP that have access to your DB 01-13-102 14:03:39 php instead to cgi 01-13-102 14:03:43 html 01-13-102 14:03:50 and maybe javascript 01-13-102 14:04:43 Atheist - correct me if I get this wrong! PHP is an interpreted language that is fairly tightly integrated with the web server 01-13-102 14:04:53 Doug: yes 01-13-102 14:04:59 I used for PIDO/2 01-13-102 14:05:15 and there is a PHP port for apache/2 01-13-102 14:05:21 http://www.quasarbbs.net/pido2/ 01-13-102 14:05:23 meaning that (theoretically) PHP programs don't have to start a new process in order to run, like CGI programs do 01-13-102 14:05:43 Doug: yes 01-13-102 14:05:55 Doug: what is PHP? 01-13-102 14:05:57 Doug: but you can also use the PHP CGI (I never test it) 01-13-102 14:06:00 I don't believe however that there is a PHP port for Lotus Dominon Web server, or Web/s 01-13-102 14:06:29 Walter: http://www.php.net/ 01-13-102 14:07:11 Walter: php is a script for your html pages with a sintax like a C language 01-13-102 14:07:50 Walter: you can put a php code into your pages 01-13-102 14:08:44 Atheist: If I wanted to have the VOICE main page be updated with posts from the VOICE News list, could I use PHP? 01-13-102 14:08:57 Whether or not we use that would be to Doug, DB2 team leader, and it sounds like he's not inclined to go that way. 01-13-102 14:08:58 Or does that only work with a DB 01-13-102 14:09:10 MADeCSSMP: yes you can 01-13-102 14:09:21 MADeCSSMP: on PIDO/2 I read the news from TXT files :-) 01-13-102 14:09:24 would be=would be up 01-13-102 14:09:55 I suggest that we have a CGI vs other languages techniques discussion on the DB2 discussion group this coming week. 01-13-102 14:10:04 this is the port page for PHP/2 http://silk.apana.org.au/php/ 01-13-102 14:10:30 there is a version that can also access to DB/2 01-13-102 14:10:52 Doug: PHP is very simple 01-13-102 14:11:09 I programmed with Embedded C for DB2 01-13-102 14:11:17 Is there an online tutor page on PHP? 01-13-102 14:11:24 and I don't like it :-) 01-13-102 14:11:33 MADeCSSMP: yes! 01-13-102 14:11:44 * Atheist searching a link 01-13-102 14:12:04 Atheist - are you on the warpdoctor mailing list? 01-13-102 14:12:14 Doug: yes 01-13-102 14:12:23 Doug: I think 01-13-102 14:12:37 Atheist: I found a tutorial at the php.net site 01-13-102 14:12:38 Doug: I receive a Warpdoctor meating message :-) 01-13-102 14:12:46 MADeCSSMP: ok 01-13-102 14:12:53 MADeCSSMP: http://www.php.net/docs.php 01-13-102 14:12:55 :> 01-13-102 14:13:32 Good point - I will send out a revised version of the preliminary design doc to everyone on the list. When you get that email me with comments. It will include database access methodology 01-13-102 14:16:45 Doug, if you need a thread set up on the forum, or run into other problems please let me know. 01-13-102 14:16:54 Thanks walter 01-13-102 14:21:31 Agenda? 01-13-102 14:21:35 There are a few more points on the agenda we should deal with. 01-13-102 14:22:39 When we left the meeting last week, we were discussing contacting software authors who had dropped off the 'net. 01-13-102 14:23:47 Someone also made the good suggestion that we make WD a sort of clearing house for "old software". 01-13-102 14:24:42 I wish pilot aka guest --the lawyer--were here. 01-13-102 14:25:22 Walter: I remember... the "hidden archive"... 01-13-102 14:25:29 What are some of the ways we could contact these authors of software that's still copyrighted. 01-13-102 14:26:41 Maybe - set up a list of disappeared companies/software, and a group that goes through the list to contact them 01-13-102 14:26:46 OK, I personally think that's a valid way of doing it. How about some of the rest of you? 01-13-102 14:27:16 yes this is a good idea 01-13-102 14:27:32 but probabily most of "dead" SH havend an email 01-13-102 14:27:35 haven't 01-13-102 14:27:51 Or they do, but it's changed. 01-13-102 14:28:03 changed=now dead 01-13-102 14:28:05 True - the "contacting" might turn out to be difficult and time consuming 01-13-102 14:28:08 That would work well with a distributed effort, even a newbie such as I could assist. 01-13-102 14:28:43 Who else would like to help out with this? 01-13-102 14:29:02 Walter: I can... 01-13-102 14:29:18 Thanks to both of you. :-) 01-13-102 14:29:30 I was thinking that perhaps WD could either take over the copyright, or act as a "publisher" for companies/authors that don't want to spend the time or money to market their software anymore 01-13-102 14:29:41 Walter: [ot] but before I must change the email address in the ML. 01-13-102 14:30:01 Why not "advertise" on the OS/2 newsgroups? Even those who no longer read those are known to others who do. Ask *those* to contact you? 01-13-102 14:30:06 Walter: how I can (I never find the istruction :-)) 01-13-102 14:30:23 Also, I'd be willing to do some the contacting, from that hypothetical list. 01-13-102 14:32:40 WD should probably decide what role it wants to play before contacting people, e.g. would WD act as a shield for liability, act as sales agent, etc. 01-13-102 14:36:45 Doug: If WD could take over the copyrights and act as publisher that would be the ideal, in my mind. 01-13-102 14:37:27 However, there could be a lot of time, and some expense involved. :-( 01-13-102 14:38:13 My guess is that WD would get more buy-in from authors by acting as publisher and support channel. Meaning, if WD could provide a method of eliminating expenses for the authors and still give them control and possibly a little profit. 01-13-102 14:39:21 As long as WD kept the software available for the OS/2 community I think it would be worth it. And if WD get a very TINY amount of $ from sells it might cover expenses. 01-13-102 14:41:47 WarpDoctor is not a separate organization, but is funded by VOICE, Inc. which does have some, but a limited amount of capital. Right now, WD is very high on VOICE's priority list. 01-13-102 14:41:48 For example: 1) sell through BMTMICRO, provide space on web server for each software (eliminate cost of domain to author), act as liability shield and contact point for support. 01-13-102 14:42:33 Yeah - I really mean VOICE, since they are the more appropriate org. 01-13-102 14:43:06 Maybe author could be persuaded to let WD hold a copy of program source? 01-13-102 14:43:10 A good one to start with might be Dave Hock or Hockware - makers of VisProRexx, VisProC, etc. 01-13-102 14:43:33 Good idea Gord. Let WD be safekeeper of source code. 01-13-102 14:44:01 Investigate concept of "escrow"? 01-13-102 14:44:18 This is off-topic, but necessary. VOICE is seriously looking into developing its own e-Business server using the VOICE1 server. We think we can do it much cheaper than with BMTMICRO. (BMTMICRO has been doing it free--but they're getting fed up with giving us a free ride.) 01-13-102 14:44:23 Hear! Hear! 01-13-102 14:45:01 Hear.. etc. + about escrow. 01-13-102 14:46:06 I don't know the particulars, but it might be good to help BMTMICRO stay in the OS/2 software distribution business. I think they may be the only one's left in the US. 01-13-102 14:46:29 It might be worth a slight markup to keep them in the loop 01-13-102 14:47:09 This idea was originally for software that had faded out or the author had vanished. Should not be a competitor of BMT. 01-13-102 14:47:13 Doug, we can look into it. However I'm somewhat dubious. 01-13-102 14:47:36 Gord: I agree. 01-13-102 14:48:26 Gord, would you be able to help with the software publishing project we're talking about? 01-13-102 14:48:36 I guess WD could sell (formally) discontinued software while BMT sell (still) continued software. 01-13-102 14:50:08 Doug: I'm not a diplomat or a salesman or the son of either. VBG It might be worked out, but it take someone well verse in marketing. 01-13-102 14:50:11 Not sure. My 'people skills' aren't strong. 01-13-102 14:50:48 I'm not a marketing type either. Let's try and fine someone smooth and brillant. 01-13-102 14:51:10 Mine are almost non-existent. However, I don't want to push anyone--so, it's OK. 01-13-102 14:51:24 Also important to publicize any software we get. I know my main source of purchased software these days is from mentions in news groups. 01-13-102 14:51:35 That's the kind of guy we want. 01-13-102 14:52:16 What kind of research is needed? 01-13-102 14:53:50 Well, we could start with the shareware in a place like Hobbes. 01-13-102 14:53:58 Walter - how about Mark Alhstand (SP?) - he was the business half of the Keller Group - the company that made the OS/2 PMFax software that has been picked up by the BackAgain/2 company? 01-13-102 14:54:38 Association Of Shareware Professionals might be a place to start? 01-13-102 14:54:47 Do you know what Mark's doing now, or how to contact him? 01-13-102 14:55:14 ASP would be another. 01-13-102 14:55:41 I think he might of gone to work for the BackAgain/2 company _ I can't remember the company's name. I 'll look it up and get back to you. 01-13-102 14:55:50 Walter: ASP? 01-13-102 14:56:14 Association of Shareware Professionals 01-13-102 14:56:29 Doug: BA/2000 is CDS 01-13-102 14:56:31 Walter: ASP is a TM of Microsoft 01-13-102 14:56:49 Walter: is a script language for HTML pages (like php) 01-13-102 14:56:57 Ooooo - we might have to pay a royality! 01-13-102 14:57:09 Walter: I think that is not a good idea use it :-) 01-13-102 14:57:33 I wasn't using it--I thought they used it. 01-13-102 14:57:35 Doug: is not a good idea because is Microsoft :-) 01-13-102 14:58:20 Can anyone suggest some programs they would like to see 'revived'? 01-13-102 14:59:29 VxRexx (Sybase) VisPro/C/C++/Rexx VIspro Report (Hockware), BlueCad (an Italian company) 01-13-102 14:59:41 If you know the author, add that. 01-13-102 14:59:54 SQL-Anywhere (Sybase - probably not much of a chance) 01-13-102 15:00:14 OK, I'm going to set up another Forum for Gord, mircomir, and jerryro--and then you can bat around ideas about this publishing house. Is that OK? 01-13-102 15:00:46 Great Idea 01-13-102 15:00:57 OK with me. 01-13-102 15:01:02 If someone else wants to come aboard, just have them come to me and I'll add them as well. 01-13-102 15:01:35 Walter - could you add me to the publish group also? 01-13-102 15:01:36 To revive: hpfsa102 - r/w access HPFS from DOS. Somebody Kinzler. He's around; just doesn't want to play... 01-13-102 15:01:48 Doug, since you kickstarted this project, and have had so many good ideas, I'm putting you in there as well. :-) 01-13-102 15:02:33 wdl: That's an excellent idea 01-13-102 15:04:26 Finally, I'd like to table Doug's paper until his update comes out. This past week has been so horrendous I haven't even had a chance to do more than scan it. 01-13-102 15:04:54 Would someone like to move an adjournment? 01-13-102 15:05:07 So moved 01-13-102 15:05:16 Seconded. 01-13-102 15:05:18 Any discussion 01-13-102 15:05:31 Next meeting as usual? 01-13-102 15:05:58 Jeremy - are you still on? 01-13-102 15:05:58 Right. I'll try to get the agenda out a bit more promptly. :-) 01-13-102 15:06:54 I worked 01-13-102 15:07:01 on this 01-13-102 15:07:02 http://www.quasarbbs.net/ecsoft2/ 01-13-102 15:07:13 A list o OS/2 and eCS programs 01-13-102 15:07:22 with description etc... 01-13-102 15:07:25 mircomir, while you were away you were added to a forum for this project. 01-13-102 15:07:51 Gord: ok 01-13-102 15:08:00 How we work? 01-13-102 15:08:34 I'll set up a forum and add everyone in the group to it. 01-13-102 15:08:46 Gottagonow... Guests arriving. Luck on the software thingie. 01-13-102 15:08:51 To start can we get this log into thew forum somehow? 01-13-102 15:09:09 OK, let's vote on Doug's adjournment motion. 01-13-102 15:09:15 Aye 01-13-102 15:09:21 Go to www.warpdoctor.org/ceilidh Your user name is the same as you using on IRC 01-13-102 15:09:32 Aye 01-13-102 15:09:36 Doug: ok 01-13-102 15:09:46 password is password 01-13-102 15:09:49 aye/ 01-13-102 15:10:14 Doug: general discussion? 01-13-102 15:10:24 Carried. 01-13-102 15:10:32 Meeting adjourned. 01-13-102 15:10:45 Walter will set up a separate group for publishing