11-11-101 14:06:15 *** Log Activated #warpdoctor (I:\INTERNET\GTIRC30\LOGS\#warpdoc.log) 11-11-101 14:06:15 *** Walter (walter.os2@cr709889-a.ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com) has joined #warpdoctor [14:06:15] 11-11-101 14:06:15 *** Names on #WarpDoctor: Walter WRook JWE Chriswork @Rat-Salad 11-11-101 14:06:15 *** #WarpDoctor Mode is (+tn ) 11-11-101 14:06:15 *** Created: Fri Nov 9 22:02:37 2001 11-11-101 14:06:28 Hi everyone! 11-11-101 14:07:07 Hi Walter, I am Wilson Rook of Internet Walkabout in New Era Michigan. 11-11-101 14:07:42 Well, John, I'm fairly sure you're here. Looks like the others are here in computer only. :-) 11-11-101 14:07:57 Hi Wilson! 11-11-101 14:09:34 For those who don't know, Wilson runs the ISP where our server is located. He takes very good care of it, too. :-) 11-11-101 14:10:21 *** JWE ~jedwards p29b.clorine.sentex.ca (John W. Edwards) 11-11-101 14:10:21 *** Channels: #WarpDoctor 11-11-101 14:10:21 *** irc.webbnet.org WEBBnet MAIN Hub Server [Daytona Beach, FL] 11-11-101 14:10:21 *** JWE Idle 518 sec. On since Sun Nov 11 14:00:44 2001 11-11-101 14:11:35 We've been a little slow getting started lately. It takes people awhile to realize the meeting's started. 11-11-101 14:12:24 Chrissy, are you there? Do you know if Jeremy is coming? 11-11-101 14:13:24 *** lalcan (lalcan@cs11-10.modems.unam.mx) has joined #WarpDoctor [14:13:24] 11-11-101 14:13:27 hi! 11-11-101 14:14:06 Hi lalcan! 11-11-101 14:14:38 For those haven't seen the announcement, you can read the agenda at: http://www.warpdoctor.org/agendas/warpdoc_11112001.html . 11-11-101 14:16:14 OK, let's get started, and hope more show up later. 11-11-101 14:16:26 Status -- I worked with Able to reload DB2 (I put a disk in the dirve and helped reboot. Able did the work (I just watched) 11-11-101 14:17:02 Thanks, Wilson. 11-11-101 14:17:28 This Nov 11 meeting of WarpDoctor is now called to order. 11-11-101 14:18:43 Thanks to a modification Judy helped me with, I'm getting the log, because my GTIrc does an AutoLog when it joins a channel. 11-11-101 14:19:00 No more forgetting. :) 11-11-101 14:19:45 *** CTCP PING (JWE) 11-11-101 14:19:51 Agenda Item 3: DB2: - Wilson has already given us a brief report on DB2. 11-11-101 14:21:43 Wilson, do you have anything else you'd care to add? 11-11-101 14:22:16 DB2 was not able to log on as an user. The user manager had to be reloaded. 11-11-101 14:23:02 I have not talked to Able after the load, but lt looked like the probems were getting solved. 11-11-101 14:23:15 *** Judy (~judymc@192.168.1.1) has joined #warpdoctor [14:23:15] 11-11-101 14:23:26 Hi Judy. :-) 11-11-101 14:23:30 hi Walter :) 11-11-101 14:23:42 I'm still here. 11-11-101 14:24:07 didn't expect you to go anywhere....... 11-11-101 14:24:20 I see names...anyone else active? 11-11-101 14:24:42 Hi Judy, be kind - this is my first time 11-11-101 14:24:42 Wilson, that sounds a bit like the problems I've been having with eComStation. 11-11-101 14:25:05 WRook: I am always kind :)....and we appreciate you hosting VOICE :) 11-11-101 14:25:27 5 of us are actually active. The others seem to be just dormant computers. 11-11-101 14:25:35 Thanks -- I may be missing something - what problem with eComStation 11-11-101 14:26:50 I installed it with LAN Administration, and found it really tough to logon to the LAN. I eventually found a way, however. 11-11-101 14:27:14 It could be just my configuration, too. 11-11-101 14:27:31 the old userid + password first login problem, perhaps? 11-11-101 14:28:09 lalcan: that was a real pain! 11-11-101 14:28:21 No, it kept insisting there was something wrong with the Domain. I've only ever used one. 11-11-101 14:28:34 OK I see the connection now. I think I saw somthing about loading eComStation with "USERID" and "PASSWORD" and then change it after the install. 11-11-101 14:28:37 Domain or Domain name. 11-11-101 14:29:50 I'm putting together something for WD to try cover some of these pecularties. I may expand it into an article for the NL. 11-11-101 14:30:53 That could go into the tips and tricks section... 11-11-101 14:31:01 Wilson, I take you left before Abel got the UDM installed? 11-11-101 14:31:18 lalcan, that's the plan. 11-11-101 14:32:02 No, That is the CD he needed. He reloaded UDM and then loaded DB/2 in under 5 Min. I left before he did any config to DB2 11-11-101 14:34:41 Yeah, according to his email, UDM still needs to be configured. I'd like to decide who gets to be top bannana this aft. :-) 11-11-101 14:35:42 Abel says he needs to know who in WD really needs the password to the DB2 area. 11-11-101 14:36:50 We'll leave that until "New Business" and hope more people show up. I've fired up a message to Rat-Salad to remind of the mtg. 11-11-101 14:36:59 hey 11-11-101 14:37:14 Speak of the devil. 11-11-101 14:37:54 I should get "Sunday, 2:00PM" tatooed on my forehead 11-11-101 14:38:13 What finally got to you? 11-11-101 14:39:22 What finally reminded you of the meeting? 11-11-101 14:39:50 just happened to peak in here.. sorry 11-11-101 14:40:30 Also, what happened to the meeting reminder that was supposed to have been mailed out? Are you doing that or is Abel? 11-11-101 14:41:01 Whoever, it didn't get done until I did it around noon today--a bit late. 11-11-101 14:41:14 Abel does that... hmm its automated.. weird 11-11-101 14:41:40 automated=not automated 11-11-101 14:41:41 ohh I know why... 11-11-101 14:41:52 Fire away. 11-11-101 14:41:57 Abel moved Weasel 11-11-101 14:42:28 Should I remind Abel to move our announcements? 11-11-101 14:44:03 ill let him know if didn't get sent out 11-11-101 14:44:10 it 11-11-101 14:44:19 OK, thanks. 11-11-101 14:44:45 Now that I've beaten Rat-Salad about the head and shoulders. :-) 11-11-101 14:44:55 Let's move on with our meeting. 11-11-101 14:45:30 I can't believe I forgot about the meeting.. I was actually distracted working on the WD website 11-11-101 14:45:41 We were looking at Status Reports. 11-11-101 14:46:02 You're going to have to break down and get the Relish program. 11-11-101 14:46:36 While we're still on SR, do you have anything you want to say about the website? 11-11-101 14:47:38 not really at this time.. I've been busy with work projects all week untill yesterday 11-11-101 14:48:12 OK, let's go to Agenda Item 4: Old Business. 11-11-101 14:48:33 btw.. I never got a reply from Charles 11-11-101 14:48:57 a. Proposal to store drivers & other important software on SERVER1 11-11-101 14:49:17 b. Sources 11-11-101 14:49:24 1. Hobbes 11-11-101 14:49:44 ii. Device Manufacturers 11-11-101 14:49:55 iii. Leo 11-11-101 14:50:06 iv. IBM Japan 11-11-101 14:50:15 v. Misc 11-11-101 14:50:28 c. Maintenance 11-11-101 14:50:30 ftp.funet.fi keeps some very old software not kept anywhere else, that could be useable for some people... 11-11-101 14:52:05 Bandwidth is not a problem at this time, but if WD takes off with eCS, it could be. The use of the database to manage links to other sites would help to use the internet as it was designed. The only problem is if one of the sites goes down 11-11-101 14:52:24 without any notice then the old software such at what is on ftp.funet.fi would be lost. 11-11-101 14:53:08 First, I suppose we should formally decide to do this. We can look at specific sites later. 11-11-101 14:53:15 didn't the os/2 stuff on walnut creek cdrom disappear? 11-11-101 14:53:39 Wilson, this was precisely what triggered the discussion. 11-11-101 14:54:35 afaik only the ftpos2.cdrom.com access was cancelled, the files should still be there with the usual address ftp.cdro.com 11-11-101 14:54:37 As we see Device Mfg. and even IBM shrinking or eliminating supporting for OS/2, we are finding that links to drivers are no longer valid. 11-11-101 14:55:36 this would be a very important project without a doubt 11-11-101 14:56:04 Yes, I try of archive drivers for my old hardware. I support the motion to store data on Voice1. 11-11-101 14:56:44 We can look at Tuwcows as an example of a way to create mirrors. (2003 project) 11-11-101 14:57:01 Hobbes is almost 5Gb, perhaps we could expect to store 7+Gb, would that be ok with VOICE? 11-11-101 14:57:13 During the discussion, last week, I believe we discussed increasing our payment a nominal amount to cover at least some of the additional bandwidth. However, no specific figures, were mentioned. 11-11-101 14:57:48 I remind you all that the Hobbes archive as of March of 2001 is on VOICE1 11-11-101 14:58:06 Good Point. 11-11-101 14:58:21 I put it there right before VOICE1 was shipped to walkabout 11-11-101 14:58:25 Bandwidth is not a problem at this time. 11-11-101 14:58:27 So we aren't looking at an additional 5GB for Hobbes. 11-11-101 14:59:15 it wouldn't take much to get whats there up with whats currently on Hobbes 11-11-101 14:59:45 I think we need to consider some means of selection, if not now, then in the future. 11-11-101 15:00:38 We should also look at some actual numbers, or estimates of the amount of data involved. 11-11-101 15:01:47 agree.. maybe a good idea to write to the maintainers of the archives we want to mirror 11-11-101 15:02:15 Are there any people present opposed in principle to this plan? 11-11-101 15:02:27 I suggest a second Computer such as an IBM 500 with 18 drive bays. If we can get a hold of a newere RAID controller, Additional drives can be added on the fly. 11-11-101 15:02:32 Please type Aye if you are. 11-11-101 15:03:25 Wilson: 18 drive bays: the mind boggles! 11-11-101 15:03:27 No, I totally support the archival plan. I also support the ftp site plan to a lessor degree 11-11-101 15:03:29 aye.. (hmm anyone else alive?) 11-11-101 15:03:43 Aye 11-11-101 15:03:50 :) 11-11-101 15:04:00 Aye 11-11-101 15:04:19 i'm alive and sometimes even kicking:) 11-11-101 15:04:23 aye 11-11-101 15:04:34 Aye 11-11-101 15:04:35 I read it as type Aye if opposed 11-11-101 15:04:59 Are there any people present opposed in principle to this plan? 11-11-101 15:05:05 Please type Aye if you are. 11-11-101 15:05:29 maybe it was me that read it wrong :) 11-11-101 15:05:30 Judy, you are right: I worded it badly. 11-11-101 15:05:50 so I believe we typed aye as in all for it :) 11-11-101 15:06:10 Let's do it again, and hopefully get it right. 11-11-101 15:06:13 I agree with Judy 11-11-101 15:06:19 it's right enough as is... 11-11-101 15:07:17 All in favour in principle of storing drivers, etc. on Server1, please type AYE 11-11-101 15:07:27 AYE 11-11-101 15:07:33 Aye 11-11-101 15:07:33 aye :) 11-11-101 15:07:36 aye 11-11-101 15:08:44 Walter Aye or Nay? 11-11-101 15:08:57 shh..he's thinking 11-11-101 15:09:09 Aye (merely technical since I can't vote, but after all I did initiate the discussion. :-) 11-11-101 15:09:24 aye :) 11-11-101 15:09:31 whew :) 11-11-101 15:09:41 Opposed? 11-11-101 15:10:00 I don't think anyone's left. :-) 11-11-101 15:10:07 Carried. 11-11-101 15:10:13 everyone voted except Chriswork..who isn't here 11-11-101 15:10:46 Tough to vote, when you're not here. 11-11-101 15:11:15 don't underestimate a woman! 11-11-101 15:11:50 After being married 35 years, do you think, I need to be told that?! 11-11-101 15:12:16 lol 11-11-101 15:12:39 I'd like to ask a question of Wilson 11-11-101 15:13:00 Ask 11-11-101 15:13:00 No, I totally support the archival plan. I also support the ftp site 11-11-101 15:13:00 plan to a lessor degree 11-11-101 15:13:24 the last part of the sentence 11-11-101 15:13:35 "lessor" degree 11-11-101 15:13:52 Storage is not a bandwith issue. It is uploaded once and then a second time when the archive (Private Archive) is needed 11-11-101 15:14:36 guess I should have scrolled back farther...didn't realize it got confused 11-11-101 15:14:39 The perminate storage and safegarding of the date is very important. 11-11-101 15:14:50 correct 11-11-101 15:15:30 A public FTP site the combines Hobbs as well as many other would defeat the pupose of such other sites and could create a bandwith issue. 11-11-101 15:16:04 understood 11-11-101 15:16:32 If view of my current bandwith and future bandwidth, and my estimate of the bandwith needed for a public FTP site, I also support the motion. 11-11-101 15:16:38 thats something I didn't think of 11-11-101 15:18:12 Judy, is there any kind of copyright problem with storing IBM files, mfg's drivers, etc. in SERVER1? 11-11-101 15:18:32 Walter: that's could be an issue 11-11-101 15:19:02 IF they are publicly available at other sites...like device drivers...then I don't see that as a problem 11-11-101 15:19:10 The best of both worlds could be a database that would provide a general link along with the dedicated link to the other site as well as listing the archival location for the sysadmin. 11-11-101 15:19:14 as long as it is not a public ftp site, it could be considered a personal storage site... right? 11-11-101 15:19:31 I recall being asked very politely...early on....by IBM to remove WebEx from my site and link to IBM :) 11-11-101 15:20:00 The storage and distribution of copyright information is an issue. 11-11-101 15:20:26 *** Sector (andreww@c3T2-057.015.popsite.net) has joined #warpdoctor [15:20:26] 11-11-101 15:20:32 Nothing from Software Choice could be redistributed 11-11-101 15:20:38 Hi Sector! 11-11-101 15:20:58 Hello Walter 11-11-101 15:21:15 I think there would be more leway for the Archive that is not public and then review the copyright if one file is no longer available from the original location. 11-11-101 15:21:17 unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately... i dont think IBM cares any longer about OS/2 software... 11-11-101 15:21:27 This is not meant to sneaky, HOWEVER: 11-11-101 15:21:33 WRook: agree 11-11-101 15:22:00 it CanNot be sneaky...everything MUST be legal 11-11-101 15:22:27 If, as I would like to see, the archive is available to VOICE *members* only, then IBM would not even see it. 11-11-101 15:22:42 Looking forward, how long is the copyright valid. Is OS/2 2.1 still covered by copyright? 11-11-101 15:22:44 Legal and sneaky? 11-11-101 15:22:46 we have a couple of IBM'ers that belong to VOICE 11-11-101 15:23:39 lalcan, I think your wrong up to a point.. 11-11-101 15:23:41 Wrook: I agree with you...if we question a specific...then we need to check out everything before making it available for d/l 11-11-101 15:23:43 The members only would help control the bandwith issue. The database could provide the link as 11-11-101 15:24:38 brb 11-11-101 15:24:53 The database could provide the information and link to the public as a service to the os/2 community - but limit access to the onsite archive to members only (if such distribution is allowed) again - just a database flag. 11-11-101 15:25:37 in that case this could be a way to convience more people to join VOICE hehe 11-11-101 15:25:39 WRook: How familiar are you with DB2? 11-11-101 15:26:08 You sound very knowledgeable. 11-11-101 15:26:10 RS:that is true, that could help promote VOICE subscriptions :) 11-11-101 15:26:20 I can spell it. (It - and even DB2) 11-11-101 15:26:52 R-S and Lawrence: That's the idea! 11-11-101 15:27:28 I have been working with a propritary SQL database from another vendor. So SQL on 0 to 10. I'm a 2. I can write a SQL statement. I have a very good understanding of the underlying database. 11-11-101 15:27:36 could be very effective too 11-11-101 15:30:07 www.imageparade.com/view.asp?picid=100 The images, costume, and age are stored in the database along with the childs real name. The real name is not made available to the public. 11-11-101 15:30:09 Wilson: Do you happen to know how big the Server1 disks are? 11-11-101 15:30:55 Just because I installed them -- No. Some were 18GB. There is a lot of space. 11-11-101 15:31:12 Thanks. 11-11-101 15:32:50 Again, a seperate archive computer, slow CPU, large drive capacity should be looked at for the long run. RAID, Standby backups. Quarterly Backups would be good, but the online RAID backup is a good start. 11-11-101 15:33:49 R-S: do you know the total space on SERVER1 11-11-101 15:34:16 No big deal if you don't? 11-11-101 15:34:27 I will have that info in 15 Min. 11-11-101 15:34:43 not really... could find out real easy 11-11-101 15:35:03 *** OldNewbie (ehw@aus-as3-064.io.com) has joined #WarpDoctor [15:35:03] 11-11-101 15:35:11 Wilson, doing it now, so it's OK. 11-11-101 15:35:25 11-11-101 15:35:54 lalcan, what were some of those ftp addresses you typed earlier? 11-11-101 15:36:19 i'm back 11-11-101 15:36:31 which ftp addresses sorry ? 11-11-101 15:36:31 Good to have you! 11-11-101 15:37:25 Near the beginning of this discussion, you gave me one or two ftp addresses that had some old drivers in them--I thought. 11-11-101 15:38:02 i only recall writing about ftp.funet.fi :) Mexico has just passed to the Next Soccer World Cup :) 11-11-101 15:38:34 OK--easy to see where your mind is! :-) 11-11-101 15:38:52 Congrats to your team, though! 11-11-101 15:40:06 thanks, US qualified some couple of weeks ago, and we had to make it in the last chance, against Honduras ... 11-11-101 15:40:47 i found ftp.funet.fi when i was trying to find an OS/2 user list a couple of months ago... 11-11-101 15:41:07 *** OldNewbie has left #WarpDoctor [15:41:07] 11-11-101 15:41:37 but unfortunately, that list is from '94 and quite obsolete... the same as the OS/2 team site... 11-11-101 15:42:02 it has lots of info about the early OS/2 years... 11-11-101 15:42:16 I just checked, and it seems you're right. :-( 11-11-101 15:42:42 11-11-101 15:42:54 BTW the other day i found a MS OS/2 box in a client's manufacturing site... !! i was amazed to find out that they use it 11-11-101 15:43:18 to run some very old -but still useable- manufacturing robots... 11-11-101 15:43:46 Let's look at the issue of Maintenance. 11-11-101 15:44:11 i asked them to sell them to me, and they just looked at me like i was nuts :) jeje, ok, let's get on with this 11-11-101 15:45:03 them= the software disks, not the robots! jeje who would be responsible for the maintenance? 11-11-101 15:45:21 This is one sticky problem we have to resolve. The labour shortage in VOICE is so critical we can't devote any significant amount of time to maintaining the archive. 11-11-101 15:45:36 Drive C: 2GB 1.5 free, D: 6.5GB 5.9 Free, E: 17.8GB 9.4 Free F:SADUMP, G: 17.8GB 17.2 Free. R:,S,T,U, are the same as C:-F: 11-11-101 15:45:56 We have to automate it as much as possible. 11-11-101 15:46:03 Suggestions? 11-11-101 15:47:03 Thanks, Wilson. 11-11-101 15:47:54 I read automat as use of a database. 11-11-101 15:48:23 Could you explain a bit? 11-11-101 15:49:02 well, i've to go, i'm still working in the hcl, slowly but steady... hope you all have a great week! 11-11-101 15:49:27 Thanks for coming, lalcan! 11-11-101 15:49:35 bye bye 11-11-101 15:49:39 Access to the database (once created) could be given to 10 people to do the day to day maintanance. 11-11-101 15:49:42 *** lalcan has left #WarpDoctor [15:49:42] 11-11-101 15:50:27 I for example, can not provide day to day update, but this week I am working with installing eCS and I could add the stuff to the database as I find it. 11-11-101 15:52:22 The database would inforce the structure. Anyone could add a data archive (without any programming knowledge - Just fill in 4 fields, upload the file and set 5 flags (copyright, access, ect)) 11-11-101 15:52:32 Actually most of the automation--which isn't a lot--already in existence uses scripts or web pages . (Correct me if I'm wrong R-s). 11-11-101 15:54:26 The database could even accept updates from anyone - then a assist admin could OK the file with the check of a single box. (now it is starting to sound like notes) 11-11-101 15:55:36 Are you talking about individual drivers or directories? 11-11-101 15:56:39 Or URL's? 11-11-101 15:57:38 I was thinking about updating the Hobbes portio our archive as Hobbes gets updated. 11-11-101 15:57:53 portio=portion 11-11-101 15:58:04 Both, Two fields One for the link and one for the type of file. Or even a few searchable keywords. - and yes to URL's. The URL links would provide the public service link. The other fileds would save archive info, Version, File size. 11-11-101 16:00:21 There appears to be a natural division between entering *new* data into the archive, and maintaining (updating, deleting) the 11-11-101 16:00:31 information already there. 11-11-101 16:00:51 I was using maintenance to refer to the latter. 11-11-101 16:01:17 Your idea would work well adding *new* entries. :-) 11-11-101 16:01:28 well=well for 11-11-101 16:02:24 Also for updating, deleting. The 10 or so assistant admins could have update authority. 11-11-101 16:03:52 A procedure could be used for deletion such that the assistants could mark a file/record for deletion which would take it down for live presentation. Then a senior admin would review the file for perminate deletion or some other private/historical 11-11-101 16:03:56 archiving. 11-11-101 16:04:01 The problem is that VOICE doesn't have the manpower to rely on humans to do the routine updating and editing. This routine stuff must be handled by the computer. 11-11-101 16:05:32 Yes, If you are talking about archiving another site, mirror, the same scripts could be used. The script would update the database. 11-11-101 16:05:55 VOICE is a volunteer org and so must rely on spare time its members can salvage from their real lifes including jobs, family etc. Makes it pretty tight sometimes. 11-11-101 16:06:27 lifes=lives 11-11-101 16:06:39 I do agree that the manpower to create the database may be an obstical. Once it is created, ongoing Maintance would be less. 11-11-101 16:06:50 Agreed. 11-11-101 16:07:09 I really appreciate your input. 11-11-101 16:07:26 We'd love you to come in the future! 11-11-101 16:08:07 An informational database that includes links, discripitons, version, and other keywords would be a much smaller scope. 11-11-101 16:08:22 But that's about all we can do for this week. Are you on the WarpDoctor mailing list? 11-11-101 16:08:40 *** WRook WRook 12.106.144.41 (Wilson Rook Jr.) 11-11-101 16:08:40 *** Channels: #WarpDoctor 11-11-101 16:08:40 *** irc.us.webbnet.org WEBBnet US Hub 11-11-101 16:08:59 #WarpDoctor WRook H WRook@12.106.144.41 (Wilson Rook Jr.) 11-11-101 16:09:08 I think so, I got Able's notice to todays meeting. 11-11-101 16:09:49 OK, well thanks again for coming. 11-11-101 16:09:57 Bye for now. 11-11-101 16:10:07 #WarpDoctor WRook H WRook@12.106.144.41 (Wilson Rook Jr.) 11-11-101 16:10:09 bye 11-11-101 16:10:36 Bye Judy, John, Sector, et. al. 11-11-101 16:10:39 So long 11-11-101 16:11:04 TTFN 11-11-101 16:11:13 *** JWE has left #WarpDoctor [16:11:13] 11-11-101 16:11:24 BTW, Judy, the AUTOLOG is working great.