08-22-101 17:19:36 <Walter> Could we try to stay on topic, please?
08-22-101 17:19:56 <Longstaff> sure walter.......do we have an agenda item
08-22-101 17:20:38 <Walter> Not formally, but I did ask a question relevant to WD?
08-22-101 17:21:45 <Walter> What's the URL for the WD voting form?
08-22-101 17:21:54 <PsiFire> what was the Q again?
08-22-101 17:21:59 <Rat-Salad> hmm ok... its pretty close between 12:00 AM to 2:00 PM.. and 2:00PM to 4:00PM... we need to decide
08-22-101 17:22:12 <PsiFire> thew time issue?
08-22-101 17:22:21 <Rat-Salad> err PM... wheres my brain today? :(
08-22-101 17:22:26 <PsiFire> Sunday in gerneal is bad for me so i shall abstain
08-22-101 17:23:07 <Longstaff> i think the earlier time might be more managable for european participants
08-22-101 17:23:07 <Rat-Salad> sorry walter.. its http://www.warpdoctor.org/survey.html
08-22-101 17:23:14 <Walter> Rat-Salad said the majority of the voters said Moday afternoon.
08-22-101 17:23:21 <Walter> Since I
08-22-101 17:23:27 <Rat-Salad> no Sunday afternoon
08-22-101 17:27:48 <Walter> I'm just curious:  what was the final vote, do you remember?
08-22-101 17:27:48 <Rat-Salad> we just gotta make a discusion on the time now..
08-22-101 17:28:21 <Rat-Salad> around 20 people coted
08-22-101 17:28:55 <Walter> How many were in favour of Sunday afternoon?
08-22-101 17:29:13 <Rat-Salad> 95% of them :)
08-22-101 17:29:15 <Longstaff> i made the comment that i think the earlier time [12:00] would encourage more europeans to join in
08-22-101 17:29:40 <Walter> OK, I guess that's not surprising when you think of think of it.
08-22-101 17:30:49 <Walter> There just one problem.  I have a regular engagement on Sunday mornings that goes until around 1:30p ET.
08-22-101 17:31:06 <Rat-Salad> 18 voters.. 10 of those say Sunday
08-22-101 17:31:09 <Longstaff> that's certainly a factor
08-22-101 17:31:15 <Sector> 02:00pm EST/EDT would be fine with me
08-22-101 17:31:27 <Walter> Fine with me.
08-22-101 17:31:42 <Longstaff> in that case 14:00 sunday would be better
08-22-101 17:32:08 <PsiFire> either way i probably wouldn't be able to make it
08-22-101 17:32:28 <PsiFire> is Warpdoctor going to have a session at Warpstock?
08-22-101 17:33:31 <Rat-Salad> hmm I don't recall any bringing that up
08-22-101 17:33:49 <Longstaff> PsiFire:  it's kinda premature to have a handle on who all is attending warpstock this year
08-22-101 17:34:50 <PsiFire> maybe warpdoctor can man the booth where people come with os2/ecs problems
08-22-101 17:36:55 <Rat-Salad> what time did we just decide on?
08-22-101 17:37:03 <Sector> Did weš
08-22-101 17:37:05 <Rat-Salad> 2 to 4?
08-22-101 17:37:46 <Rat-Salad> I thought we did
08-22-101 17:38:04 <Sector> Well, no "official" decision was made
08-22-101 17:38:54 <PsiFire> motion to set the time for 2pm EST
08-22-101 17:39:17 * Sector seconds PsiFire's motion
08-22-101 17:39:27 <PsiFire> sunday of course
08-22-101 17:39:46 <Rat-Salad> aye
08-22-101 17:40:24 <Walter> Rat-Salad, did there appear to be a favourite time on the "Ballots"?
08-22-101 17:40:52 <Longstaff> my intention was to include everything except the foreign language stuff, to save download time.........hopefully, install.cmd won't complain about their absence
08-22-101 17:41:13 <Rat-Salad> Walter: it was pretty close... but yeah I say 2-4 was the winner
08-22-101 17:41:42 <Longstaff> we're going with 14:00-16:00 to accomodate Walter
08-22-101 17:42:16 <Rat-Salad> ok
08-22-101 17:42:25 <Rat-Salad> I think that got the vote anyway
08-22-101 17:42:25 <Sector> Sounds good to me
08-22-101 17:43:05 <Walter> Rat-Salad, then as I said earlier I'm happy to go with 14-1600 if it suits everyone else.
08-22-101 17:43:19 <Longstaff> unless anyone doesn't want to start at 14:00 on sunday i move we make the decision unanimous
08-22-101 17:43:21 <Walter> p.m. EDT
08-22-101 17:43:24 <Rat-Salad> suits me fine
08-22-101 17:43:38 <Walter> Carried.
08-22-101 17:44:02 <Rat-Salad> I think its a good time.. not too early for the people on the west coast, and not too late for the europeans
08-22-101 17:46:08 <Longstaff> without objection, are there any questions or need for discussion regarding db2 and my ftp site
08-22-101 17:46:15 <Rat-Salad> this will go into effect next Sunday right?
08-22-101 17:48:03 <MADeCSPro> Longstaff: One item I'd like to bring up.  What version are you developing with?  your 5.x or the latest version?  I ask because Eric Erickson has offered us a NFRS licensed copy of DB/2 6.2 if we need it.
08-22-101 17:48:28 <Walter> As long as you don't mean the Sunday coming up, right.
08-22-101 17:48:58 <Longstaff> MADeCSPro:  what i have is version 5.2
08-22-101 17:50:17 <MADeCSPro> Longstaff: I'm just passing on the offer.  
08-22-101 17:51:36 <Longstaff> the later version would be fine if that's the consensus.......i must comment though nothing in my specifications calls for features that aren't already in 5.2 or can be grafted in via fixpacks
08-22-101 17:52:43 <MADeCSPro> Longstaff: If it makes sense to stay with 5.2 that is fine with me.  Eric just offered it if we needed it.
08-22-101 17:52:52 <Longstaff> slight oversimplication:  5.2+fixpaks == 6.2+fixpacks == 7.2
08-22-101 17:59:33 <Longstaff> iow, ibm kept 5.2 within the fixpack service window
08-22-101 18:04:00 <Walter> The problem is that I don't know DB2 well enough.
08-22-101 18:05:27 <Longstaff> the db2 part is pretty fundamental.......it's just a grid container for the information streaming in and out of the website
08-22-101 18:05:49 <Longstaff> the tricky part is the web interface
08-22-101 18:06:18 <Longstaff> since we're talking db2, let me add a little more
08-22-101 18:06:30 <Rat-Salad> hmm yeah... thats probably something I need to understand
08-22-101 18:06:45 <Longstaff> creating a table to hold records takes about 15 minutes
08-22-101 18:07:41 <Longstaff> loading in actual records.....especially in large numbers is a little more time-consuming
08-22-101 18:08:05 <Walter> I understand simple database theory reasonably well--just not DB2.
08-22-101 18:08:29 <Rat-Salad> we understand the concept
08-22-101 18:09:01 <Walter> I've built several applications for clients around hierarchical databases.
08-22-101 18:09:05 <Longstaff> coding a sql query is something i could almost do right here:  select * from records where keywords=video+diamond
08-22-101 18:11:35 <Longstaff> if this were just raw db2, once we had the records in the table we'd be done in a day
08-22-101 18:11:59 <Longstaff> only we're not, quite because of www
08-22-101 18:12:13 <Walter> understood.
08-22-101 18:12:52 <Longstaff> so there's a further kinda cerebral part coding websites to both get input from the user and feed back results formatted in html
08-22-101 18:13:08 <Longstaff> recapping the stages:
08-22-101 18:13:19 <Longstaff> 1: table creation
08-22-101 18:13:30 <Longstaff> 2: table data entry
08-22-101 18:13:40 <Longstaff> 3: sql
08-22-101 18:13:49 <Longstaff> 4: netdata
08-22-101 18:14:18 <Longstaff> 1 and 3 are easy and rapid
08-22-101 18:14:47 <Longstaff> 2 isn't hard, just slow, and subject to editioroal considerations
08-22-101 18:15:26 <Longstaff> 4 is hard, but that's the work we do around here
08-22-101 18:15:58 <Walter> Is there a special tool(s) we use?
08-22-101 18:16:44 <Longstaff> for 1 - i'll cover that from here
08-22-101 18:17:14 <Longstaff> for 2 - i was thinking of coding a staroffice form, and i'm open to other suggestions
08-22-101 18:17:24 <Longstaff> for 3 no
08-22-101 18:17:56 <Longstaff> for 4:  that's where netdata is vital, although there are alternatives
08-22-101 18:18:03 <Rat-Salad> glad you know what your doing :)
08-22-101 18:18:39 <Longstaff> i'm not entirely closed off to alternatives to netdata btw, although i am strongly biased by now in favor of using it
08-22-101 18:18:47 <Rat-Salad> I'm sure I can learn.. and be of help
08-22-101 18:20:06 <Longstaff> i'm sure you can too Rat-Salad.........we just need to get to the point where you have something graphical on the screen in front of you with the database connected, so all these theoretical talk will begin to take on real meaning
08-22-101 18:23:16 <Longstaff> actually, where we are right now, at this moment exactly, is that there's a 0 before step 1:  install db2
08-22-101 18:23:46 <Walter> Rat-Salad, do you think you're ever going to have time to work on my About.com articles? :-)
08-22-101 18:24:23 <Walter> Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that.
08-22-101 18:24:59 <Longstaff> hehehe - it's slightly offtopic :)
08-22-101 18:25:05 <Rat-Salad> yeah we will get to the about.com articles soon
08-22-101 18:25:12 <Rat-Salad> I need to download them again
08-22-101 18:25:19 <Walter> Oops--slap my wrist.
08-22-101 18:25:24 <Rat-Salad> are they still on VOICE1?
08-22-101 18:25:50 <Walter> I'll check and email you to let you know.
08-22-101 18:25:51 <Rat-Salad> not really off topic.. they are to go on the warpdoctor site :)
08-22-101 18:26:17 <Longstaff> i just doublechecked permissions on the ftp site.......everything should be good to go
08-22-101 18:26:25 <Walter> Sort of breaks Longstaff's thread though.
08-22-101 18:26:39 <Rat-Salad> yeah
08-22-101 18:26:58 <Longstaff> well, what i was going to ask next is that are we broadly decided that Rat-Salad is gonna do the download
08-22-101 18:27:22 <Walter> I think that is the obvious way to go.
08-22-101 18:27:25 <Rat-Salad> no I can't say definately...
08-22-101 18:27:42 <Rat-Salad> you all need to talk to Abel
08-22-101 18:27:55 <Walter> Why?
08-22-101 18:27:59 <Longstaff> Rat-Salad:  is this something you need to discuss with abel?
08-22-101 18:28:24 <Walter> I thought you had the necessary permissions.
08-22-101 18:28:26 <Rat-Salad> well Abel is currently the system admin
08-22-101 18:28:52 <Rat-Salad> I do have the necessary permissions
08-22-101 18:29:09 <Rat-Salad> well... I know the big guy's password LOL
08-22-101 18:29:41 <Longstaff> Rat-Salad:  how about you and abel touch base on the latest situation and discuss it with me on undernet if there are any questions
08-22-101 18:30:04 <Rat-Salad> but anyways I don't feel comfortable installing db2.. I don't have any experience with it
08-22-101 18:30:14 <Walter> Well, I have a separate username and password with the necessary permissions, if there is a problem.
08-22-101 18:30:52 <Walter> Longstaff, by download did you also mean install?
08-22-101 18:31:09 <Longstaff> Rat-Salad:  go at it at this point just like any other warp program
08-22-101 18:31:22 <Rat-Salad> yeah I can do that
08-22-101 18:31:38 <Longstaff> if you can install a fixpack you can certainly install db2
08-22-101 18:32:37 <Rat-Salad> I mean... I have a good knowledge of OS/2, and good logic on how to install stuff... just wasn't sure what was involved with installing DB2..
08-22-101 18:32:45 <Longstaff> there is a possibility that isntall.cmd won't like the fact that i left out the foreign language directories.......i think it's probably ok, but if not, then let me know
08-22-101 18:32:49 <Walter> If that works, we should do it that way.  I'm definitely opposed to loading anything more on Abel.  He's swamped already.
08-22-101 18:33:06 <Rat-Salad> and I realize installing something on VOICE1 isn't a thing to walk blindly into
08-22-101 18:33:37 <Longstaff> ok Walter - i was just "following the rules" about keeping a very good sysadmin informed about what we're doing
08-22-101 18:34:30 <Walter> Well, then it might be a good idea to send him a short email.
08-22-101 18:35:36 <Walter> That way we're not asking him to do anything, but he has the email for his records.
08-22-101 18:35:58 <Rat-Salad> good plan
08-22-101 18:36:13 <Longstaff> Rat-Salad:  can you cover that?
08-22-101 18:36:52 <Rat-Salad> the big thing is at this point Abel hasn't got the time to do anything even if he wanted to hehe
08-22-101 18:37:12 <Rat-Salad> I think Walter should be the messenger
08-22-101 18:37:31 <Longstaff> incidentally i just checked the download size 122,088K
08-22-101 18:37:38 <Rat-Salad> but I'll problem talk to him about it as well
08-22-101 18:37:56 <Rat-Salad> problem = probably (I'm awful tonight)
08-22-101 18:38:12 <Longstaff> no Rat-Salad.....not problem talk, please :)
08-22-101 18:38:26 <Rat-Salad> of course 
08-22-101 18:38:58 <Walter> R-S, OK when you've downloaded and installed the beast send me an email, and I'll  pass it on to Abel.
08-22-101 18:39:20 <Longstaff> that's what an m$ce would do.......take any os/2 initative and immediately make a problem out of it :)
08-22-101 18:48:26 <Walter> Anything else someone wants to quickly mention?
08-22-101 18:49:49 <Rat-Salad> go for it...
08-22-101 18:50:51 <Walter> If not I'm going to suggest we adjourn the meeting so I can get something for my ailing head before it gets really bad. :-)
08-22-101 18:51:30 <Longstaff> i have nothing further at this point, if you'd like to adjourn Walter
08-22-101 18:51:47 <Walter> The next meeting will be not this next Sunday, but the Sunday after that.  Does anyone have a date?
08-22-101 18:52:09 <Rat-Salad> Sept. 2nd
08-22-101 18:52:13 <Walter> My computer calendar is also down.
08-22-101 18:53:17 <Longstaff> got it
08-22-101 18:53:37 <Walter> If Longstaff would like to make his statement an adjournment...
08-22-101 18:53:49 <Walter> a  motion.
08-22-101 18:54:07 <Longstaff> Rat-Salad:  catch me on undernet if there are any issues regarding the download?
08-22-101 18:54:33 <Longstaff> Walter:  in that case, ok, i move to adjourn
08-22-101 18:54:52 <Walter> Meeting Adjourned.