06-06-101 17:09:46 * Longstaff applauds Sector for keying a y2k compliant date :) 06-06-101 17:10:11 Well, the year stamp in the logs is 101... 06-06-101 17:10:35 so it is! 06-06-101 17:11:14 Are you using MrFilePM to look at the log files? 06-06-101 17:11:26 You've seen the agenda, so let's begin with item C. (Please forgive me: I was very ill over the weekend, and I had 06-06-101 17:11:46 a rather unpleasant relapse today. :-) 06-06-101 17:11:59 Item C.1 06-06-101 17:12:01 * Sector hopes it's passed now 06-06-101 17:12:35 Which, DB2 or the illness. :-( 06-06-101 17:12:50 Walter, when did you send out the agenda? 06-06-101 17:13:05 very dedicated of you Walter to logon anyway and deal with this when you feel like crap 06-06-101 17:13:58 June 5. 06-06-101 17:14:16 item c: most suitable db2 version 06-06-101 17:15:21 It's the second week I haven't seen it prior to the meeting. 06-06-101 17:15:35 hi Jeremy 06-06-101 17:15:43 Should I cancel the meeting so everyone can read it? :-) 06-06-101 17:15:49 sorry I'm late, have I missed anything of any significants? 06-06-101 17:16:10 No, I'm just curious as to a possible cause. It doesn't make sense. 06-06-101 17:16:11 Not yet, just a discussion of logging. Now onto the agenda 06-06-101 17:16:12 How do I fix my aliases list 06-06-101 17:16:22 Rat-Salad: we're trying to begin with item c on the agenda, if we may 06-06-101 17:18:20 When we left the meeting last week, a number of people had questions 06-06-101 17:18:27 ok....just went to perferred channels and it updated all channels 06-06-101 17:18:53 about the best DB2 package for the WD project. 06-06-101 17:19:26 I'd like to like to spend some more time trying to get closer to agreement 06-06-101 17:19:39 on this issue, if that's possible. 6-06-101 17:21:18 Did I not make it clear that the WorkGroup Edition is the same as the Enterprise Edition except for number of user licenses? 06-06-101 17:21:32 in reply to larry finkelstein this morning i sent to the discussionlist this morning a list of functional requirements [as i envisage them] i presume everyone saw it 06-06-101 17:21:44 I saw it 06-06-101 17:21:51 Yes. 06-06-101 17:23:15 But it doesn't discuss which editions are possible. 06-06-101 17:23:16 lynn: thanx for highlighting that - they're both multiuser [workgroup and enterprise] i believe enterprise besides an unlimited usercount includes some high-end admin tools, but those are way beyond what's needed for warpdoctor 06-06-101 17:24:26 If the Universal Developer's Edition were actually downloadable, as it is supposed to be, we would be in sync with our production system, the Workgroup Edition. 06-06-101 17:24:50 As it is we have an Enterprise Edition loaner from Mark. 06-06-101 17:25:07 I have one of those Universal Developers addition but not sure what version 06-06-101 17:25:34 It's supposed to be a free download. 06-06-101 17:26:10 madodel: i believe the devcon edition you have is a complete 7.1 enterprise for os/2 ? 06-06-101 17:26:16 I got about 15 cd's with it 06-06-101 17:26:18 Universal Developers is NOT a free download. 06-06-101 17:26:34 Isn't that the one that they send on cd? 06-06-101 17:26:49 Mandie 7.1 ? 06-06-101 17:27:03 the latest that is on IBM's site 06-06-101 17:27:10 If you do the cd's, you end up paying $37 for the entire set which includes the Universal Developer's Edition. 06-06-101 17:27:29 I believe it times out but can only be obtained on cd 06-06-101 17:27:30 The IBM website is a 7.2. 06-06-101 17:27:31 Longstaff: Yes it is the Enterprise DB2 7.1. the latest fixpack updated it to 7.2 06-06-101 17:27:35 lynn, the UDE on CD is a trial. 06-06-101 17:27:40 I signed up for it but haven't received the cd as yet 06-06-101 17:28:34 I'm not sure what restrictions are imposed on the "trial". 06-06-101 17:28:35 Walter, I would like to get a more definite response from IBM on this one. The purpose of the developer's editions was just that: to encourage development. 06-06-101 17:28:49 Walter: would you consider a suggestion to install what madodel has in hand pn the warpdoctor server? that would allow prototyping to begin 06-06-101 17:28:57 There are no restrictions on the trial other than a time limit. 06-06-101 17:29:11 I agree with Longstaff. 06-06-101 17:30:02 Longstaff, I suggested that last week--or was about to--and madodel began to "get cold feet". 06-06-101 17:30:12 *** _Digi_ (~Me@63.230.14.221) has joined #warpdoctor [17:30:12] 6-06-101 17:30:20 <_Digi_> I am here. 06-06-101 17:30:28 Sorry, Mark, I don't know how else to put it. :-) 06-06-101 17:30:30 welcome _Digi_ 06-06-101 17:30:32 madodel: what do you say? 06-06-101 17:30:42 hello again! :-) 06-06-101 17:30:44 I believe Abel is still testing DB2 7.2 on his server. When he is satisfied it doesn't cause any problems that may interfere with the normal VOICE server operations we can install it on the VOICE server. 06-06-101 17:31:08 We have to be careful, since all our services run on the one server. 06-06-101 17:32:03 well, that's abel doing his job.......but in that case could we look for a date when he can give us a fitness report so we can move on? 06-06-101 17:32:21 madodel: weren't we going to wait for our upgrade? 06-06-101 17:32:24 first things first 06-06-101 17:32:35 I have no problem with installing it for development purposes. The only relevant difference between the Workgroup and Enterprise versions is the number of users supported out of the box. 06-06-101 17:32:35 I do believe that was brought up 06-06-101 17:33:06 yes - the workgroup usercount issue 06-06-101 17:33:21 I don't know what the holdup is on installing the new drives on the VOICE server 06-06-101 17:33:25 <_Digi_> What is the user limit 255? 06-06-101 17:34:05 did anyone receive notification that they arrived in MI? 06-06-101 17:34:24 madodel: i didn't realize new hw on the VOICE/warpdoctor server was as open issue 06-06-101 17:34:55 The drives are in MI. Abel was trying to coordinate an install date/time with Wilson Rook 06-06-101 17:34:57 Longstaff, one of things we could do before we have a functioning DB and server is to create a 06-06-101 17:35:07 I got the impression from Abel that the drives are there... Wilson just needs to find the time to put them in 06-06-101 17:35:09 development group. 06-06-101 17:37:28 Rat-Salad: this could mean dealing with stuff like finding ribboncables not too short, formatting and soforth 06-06-101 17:38:13 I think they have all the necessary hardware. It's a matter of Wilson finding the time. 06-06-101 17:40:25 What is the issue with respect to development? 06-06-101 17:40:37 thats what i said hehe 06-06-101 17:40:59 madodel: in that case, since we seem to be interested in sustaining a certan level of momentum, could we ask for a time commitment when the new HDDs can be in place? 06-06-101 17:41:46 Maybe I'm missing something, but what development is pending? 06-06-101 17:41:47 lynn: i take it there ain't enough room on the old hdd to install db2 06-06-101 17:42:21 Walter, what do you see as development issues? 06-06-101 17:42:23 Sure, feel free to ask Wilson. i have no idea. I ordered and paid for the drives. Abel is coordinating the server stuff. 06-06-101 17:42:51 I have input on that 06-06-101 17:43:19 I feel that Abel should handle all dealings with Wilson...it is not appropriate for anyone else to be making any requests of him 06-06-101 17:43:31 I will email Abel with the situation and he can follow up on it 06-06-101 17:44:13 madodel: it a balanceing matter - we don't want to encourage sloppiness or anything foolhardy with regard to the integrity of the server, but otoh we would like to be in a position to move ahea with warpdoctor 06-06-101 17:44:32 lynn, we are talking about development versions of DB2. I'm am simply talking about the activity 06-06-101 17:44:56 before we "turn the system on". 06-06-101 17:45:01 I agree, but we don't want to be moving directories around later, just to force it in right away 06-06-101 17:45:19 Yes, we are talking about the installation of a development version, not the developing which is related to what we are going to do with it. 06-06-101 17:45:52 I would also like to see a beta group (maybe a couple of levels) of beta groups established to control the development. 06-06-101 17:46:22 Walter, could we pause for just a moment? 06-06-101 17:47:22 ? 06-06-101 17:47:22 *pausing* 06-06-101 17:47:52 What is the purpose of a beta group before you decide on what it contains? 06-06-101 17:48:26 Are we considering storing, retrieving, and maintaining anything other than text documents? 06-06-101 17:49:24 lynn: we could consider storing html, when the source files we're being provided are already in that format 06-06-101 17:49:26 You've already told people what I've considered. Far be it from me to change your mind here. :-) 06-06-101 17:49:27 ? 06-06-101 17:49:27 * mandie *unpauses* Walter 06-06-101 17:50:08 If you do what you considered, we have no need for a beta group, only a content manager. 06-06-101 17:50:21 Fine. 06-06-101 17:50:41 Then all you have to do is line up the documents and pour them in. 06-06-101 17:51:13 lynn: that raides the issue of moderation and content supervision.....which is an open topic at this moment i believe 06-06-101 17:51:16 Assuming I do what you've considered I'm going to do. 06-06-101 17:51:30 you know what I think....... 06-06-101 17:51:58 I have no objection to doing it. 06-06-101 17:52:08 you guys that have the dB experience might want to compile some type of outline of what is needed from the get go...... 06-06-101 17:52:43 Lynn, actually, FWIW, I was thinking using a beta group as a control measure to help us keep with IBM restrictions. 06-06-101 17:52:54 mandie, at this point it is simply what in what form do you want to store and retrieve documents. 06-06-101 17:53:09 IBM restrictions? 06-06-101 17:53:11 IBM restrictions as to what we could do with a "development" system. 06-06-101 17:53:29 mandie: that was the broad motivation behind my posting this morning.....and that's by no means final - just a starting point 06-06-101 17:53:36 As long as we don't use it in production we have no restrictions. 06-06-101 17:53:37 ok..then from the experience here...what would be the most efficent form of storage and retrieval/ 06-06-101 17:53:45 /=? 06-06-101 17:54:02 Whole documents. 06-06-101 17:54:25 For once I think I agree with Lynn! 06-06-101 17:54:34 EUREKA! 06-06-101 17:54:40 It's not the most efficient for the user. 06-06-101 17:54:41 * mandie looks around for her calendar! 06-06-101 17:54:58 but don't we want the most efficient for the user? 06-06-101 17:55:15 darn! brb 06-06-101 17:55:16 so everyone knows the latest discussion logs are at http://www.warpdoctor.org/irclogs/ 06-06-101 17:55:23 RAt: thx 06-06-101 17:55:33 mandie: the BLOB field in the table would contain the whole document: something like \content\1001.txt or /content 1002.html 06-06-101 17:56:32 mandie, not really. Because you wan't to be able to cross-index a document a zillion different way, 06-06-101 17:56:38 The problem lies in the amount of information the user receives relative to that portion which he needs. 06-06-101 17:56:52 and this may mean breaking it up once again after it's stored. 06-06-101 17:56:55 Walter, not true. 06-06-101 17:57:00 What about URL's to pages we can't get permission to host? Can we do something where we have a copy of the document on our system for search purposes, but then route the user to the original document if they select it? 06-06-101 17:57:04 classically for an internal database ya'd use a memo type.....but with www blob works better 06-06-101 17:57:53 walter - if the metatags were copied into a separate keyword field [varchar] that would still work relationally 06-06-101 17:58:16 Everyone, I think we're getting far more detailed than we need to at this point. 06-06-101 17:58:22 I agree. 06-06-101 17:58:35 That's twice in one evening.:-) 06-06-101 17:58:41 ok - let's keep it in overview terms for now then 06-06-101 17:58:45 Amazaing! 06-06-101 17:59:43 The most efficient form for the user is retrieving no more and no less than necessary for his needs. 06-06-101 17:59:56 I lost track of a thread back there a bit. 06-06-101 17:59:59 It wastes less of his time. 06-06-101 18:00:44 Is it possible for us to use the existing DB2 package for WD? 06-06-101 18:00:59 most searches drop a page of headlines.......and then the user doinks the one he wants to read first - i can't think of a better way to do it 06-06-101 18:01:02 I think the answer is "yes". 06-06-101 18:01:22 Problems are: 06-06-101 18:01:26 * Longstaff supports lynn's comment 06-06-101 18:04:02 OK, I move that we use the DB2 package, currently installed on VOICE, to DEVELOP the WarpDoctor database. 06-06-101 18:04:16 Second. 06-06-101 18:04:26 Point of clarification: 06-06-101 18:04:39 Do I have the right server name? 06-06-101 18:04:54 dinner time.. be back shortly 06-06-101 18:05:03 Should it be VOICE1? 06-06-101 18:05:18 It ISN'T installed on VOICE1 06-06-101 18:05:24 Yet 06-06-101 18:05:37 abel is testing on his machine and will not be installed until new HD's are put in place 06-06-101 18:05:42 * Longstaff seconds Walter's motion 06-06-101 18:06:05 OK, let me restate the motion. 06-06-101 18:07:32 I move that we use the DB2 package installed on VOICE1, after it is installed, to DEVELOP the WarpDoctor 06-06-101 18:07:39 database. 06-06-101 18:07:48 Second. 06-06-101 18:07:59 Discussion? 06-06-101 18:08:11 none 06-06-101 18:08:44 BTW, I would like to discuss this as much as we need to. This is a crucial point. 06-06-101 18:08:54 Mandie, why "none"? 06-06-101 18:09:26 I have nothing to discuss... 06-06-101 18:09:41 But others might..... 06-06-101 18:09:41 we've determined which DB2 package we're going to use 06-06-101 18:09:51 and that it will be installed on VOICE1 06-06-101 18:10:42 Madodel, it's too bad Abel 06-06-101 18:10:51 isn't here. 06-06-101 18:11:01 I sent him email with the following: 06-06-101 18:11:14 >A couple of questions came up during the WD discussion. Can you 06-06-101 18:11:15 >possibly get some time-frame for when the new HD's will be installed on 06-06-101 18:11:15 >our server? 06-06-101 18:11:15 Do you have any idea when installation and testing might be complete? 06-06-101 18:11:27 Can you give us some type of report on how DB2 is working out for you 06-06-101 18:11:27 >and when you feel it will be ready to put on the server so development 06-06-101 18:11:27 >can begin? 06-06-101 18:11:41 <_Digi_> The bottom line to this is this....If you feel confident that it will interface properly with the server, and the security issues are resolved and it actually will work.... I don't see a problem. 06-06-101 18:11:47 OK, thanks much! 06-06-101 18:12:45 Does any one wish to add anything to the discussion? 06-06-101 18:12:51 Perhaps before each WD meeting someone could obtain a VOICE1 Status Report from Abel. 06-06-101 18:13:31 Chip, thank you for volunteering to do this! :-) 06-06-101 18:13:52 We should be able to get this directly from Abel, he just couldn't make this meeting. 06-06-101 18:14:03 OK, if there is no further discussion....... 06-06-101 18:14:31 All in favour of the motion, please signify by saying Aye. 06-06-101 18:14:35 aye 06-06-101 18:14:36 Aye. 06-06-101 18:14:40 Aye 06-06-101 18:14:41 <_Digi_> Aye 06-06-101 18:14:44 Aye 06-06-101 18:14:58 Affirmative 06-06-101 18:16:08 All opposed, signify by saying, nay. 06-06-101 18:16:32 times up 06-06-101 18:16:34 The motion carries. 06-06-101 18:16:47 Break out the bubbly!! 06-06-101 18:16:59 :) 06-06-101 18:17:40 I think we've made some major progress tonight. And no broken bones! 06-06-101 18:18:18 Second. 06-06-101 18:19:19 <_Digi_> Anymore business Walter? 06-06-101 18:19:49 That finishes my agenda, so there is no more official business. 06-06-101 18:19:58 Walter, could I get you to resend the agenda. My last message from you pertained to Larry's message, which seemingly occurred after you sent out the agenda. 06-06-101 18:20:37 Lynn: The agenda is in the automatic reminder notice 06-06-101 18:21:15 Open it up and page down. 06-06-101 18:21:22 Hey, you're correct. Just don't read far enough. Thank you. 06-06-101 18:21:39 <_Digi_> Walter ... RTFA 06-06-101 18:21:52 Any new business? 06-06-101 18:22:10 <_Digi_> So from your view point.... 06-06-101 18:22:33 <_Digi_> What is our current status of meeting the organizations overall goals? 06-06-101 18:23:12 <_Digi_> And will any new revenue streams be created from all of this to power the organization? 06-06-101 18:23:27 Revenue streams? 06-06-101 18:23:34 Gimme a break. 06-06-101 18:23:49 <_Digi_> Yea... Money to maintain the toys. 06-06-101 18:24:11 If the organization is either VOICE or WarpDoctor, the revenue stream will flow from increased membership. 06-06-101 18:24:34 WarpDoctor is an inducement to join. 06-06-101 18:24:47 <_Digi_> Ah....See I knew we had some marketing people in here :) 06-06-101 18:24:56 That's why it value to the user is so important. 06-06-101 18:25:07 its 06-06-101 18:25:35 It has been that way since day one. 06-06-101 18:25:35 <_Digi_> I move that we make lynn the promotions and PR representative ;) 06-06-101 18:26:03 You already have Abel who proposed it to begin with. 06-06-101 18:26:30 Like all the services VOICE provides to users--News--WarpDoctor is a service to all users. 06-06-101 18:26:43 <_Digi_> One thing I will say about this group... at least we are facing the same direction. 06-06-101 18:27:05 I believe Dan Casey and Dirk Terrell came up with the idea of Warp Doctor 06-06-101 18:27:15 yes, membership is not a requirement...but it's supportive of VOICE and the WarpDoctor project 06-06-101 18:27:25 madodel: yes, you're correct 06-06-101 18:27:42 os2ss was going to revive the WarpPharmacy 06-06-101 18:27:52 <_Digi_> Mandie has been our channel Cheer Leader forever :) 06-06-101 18:27:52 and VOICE offered to assist... 06-06-101 18:27:52 Ah, yes, that's why the BoD put it in Abel's capable hands. 06-06-101 18:28:02 then came the idea of WarpDoctor... 06-06-101 18:28:23 Warp Pharmacy is separate from Warp Doctor. 06-06-101 18:28:34 read above 06-06-101 18:28:35 Well, you usually go to the Dr. before you go to the pharmacy :-) 06-06-101 18:28:43 Chip :) 06-06-101 18:28:46 <_Digi_> These are things we need to alway bring back into the lime light. A gentle reminder of the mission of the organization and its benefits. 06-06-101 18:29:37 I can't remember a single WD session in which Dirk Terrell was present. 06-06-101 18:30:00 for development puropses at least - a coupla warp pharmacy pages might make good sample content for experimentation 06-06-101 18:30:09 we had private emails with Dirk and he contributed to the WarpDoctor mailing list once it was initiated 06-06-101 18:30:22 and no, Dirk did not attend any meetings... 06-06-101 18:30:36 The point is that it is a good idea. 06-06-101 18:30:37 im going to set up a apache on this box to do some testing with the WarpDoctor site layout if no one has any problems with me messing with it 06-06-101 18:30:52 lynn: bottom line :) 06-06-101 18:31:34 Bottom line is that it is unnecessary to rehash history. 06-06-101 18:31:42 it is in DIRE need of updates 06-06-101 18:31:51 * Sector seconds that 06-06-101 18:32:06 You don't need to worry about updates when in development mode. 06-06-101 18:32:29 Only that you can in fact update. 06-06-101 18:32:57 <_Digi_> yep 06-06-101 18:33:19 * Sector would expect it to always be in Development mode (in a way) as things are added/updated/ect. 06-06-101 18:33:37 I disagree....we do not have the dB in place as yet and I don't think it would hurt to bring it up-to-date if Rat-Salad has the time 06-06-101 18:34:01 Rat-Salad: thank you :) 06-06-101 18:35:01 it's 9:36p 06-06-101 18:35:39 I will prepare another long-winded message on content management.:-) 06-06-101 18:35:46 * Sector ntoes it's really only 06:35pm... 06-06-101 18:36:08 oh great! 06-06-101 18:36:38 I hope to answer your question on efficiency, mandie. 06-06-101 18:36:57 lynn: ok, but please be brief :) 06-06-101 18:37:06 Who, me? 06-06-101 18:37:16 lol 06-06-101 18:37:28 * Longstaff giggles [can't resist] :) 06-06-101 18:37:29 hehe lynn and brief are two words that don't go together :) 06-06-101 18:37:52 Thank you...and you...and you... 06-06-101 18:38:09 Mandie, Lynn, I'm going to officially adjourn the meeting. Then those of us who want can sit around and 06-06-101 18:38:19 chew the fat. 06-06-101 18:38:36 ok... 06-06-101 18:38:41 I move we adjourn the meeting. 06-06-101 18:38:46 I second 06-06-101 18:38:51 second 06-06-101 18:38:57 Carried. 06-06-101 18:39:38 Sorry, but I have to leave. But I must say this was a pleasant experience tonight. ;-) 06-06-101 18:39:53 Agreed. 06-06-101 18:39:56 * Sector seconds madodel 06-06-101 18:40:02 Nite madodel 06-06-101 18:40:02 nite Mark... 06-06-101 18:40:12 night 06-06-101 18:40:12 nite Mark 06-06-101 18:40:12 I need to reboot....bbiab 06-06-101 18:40:12 we can rock when we make up our minds to :)